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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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from Australia for science and reason

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yuria hosts Richard Saunders and Stefan

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Richard it's wonderful to be here again

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in the zone episode 19 and they said a

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wooden last past episode 19 oh this is

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episode 19 whoops no thanks that was

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about 18 wait are we showed them they

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didn't we we did and here we are back

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again it's great to be here what another

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another great show lined up to I reckon

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now I spoke to dr. Carolyn what now she

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studies parapsychology at the University

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of Edinburgh hang on you might have to

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explain that I don't have my Wikipedia

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in front of me a parapsychology what I

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thought you meant you wanted me to

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explain Edinburgh ah I said that needs a

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lot of explaining as a freaky locals

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there yeah parapsychology yes sort of

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looking scientifically at the the

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strange in the mysterious and she does a

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course about it a sort of a mail order

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or internet online course and we'll be

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finding out all about that so is that

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kind with a skeptical bent or with a bit

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of a semi believe event or a bit of a

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benign or was it a bit of everything

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like the objects that have an open mind

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the better now because she kind of

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follow subscribe to any of these things

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or is it just purely investigation it's

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more or less giving people a background

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about what parapsychology is all about

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using the scientific method of course

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excellent yeah excellent now that's

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followed by a grain of salt with Iran so

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give he's going to be looking at the

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victorian bushfires i would i would

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hazard a guess that pretty much everyone

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listening around the world would have

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heard about this well we had a great

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great disaster locally here but yes

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certainly the the news is spread like

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wildfire well partner yes after that I'm

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going to be chatting with Dwayne

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Hammacher he's the president of the

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Macquarie University skeptics I was

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there just the other day to be on their

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skeptics boo that they're open week at

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the Macquarie University and I must have

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bent about 50 spoon really would have

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been a bit of a celebrity guest there

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wouldn't you well that's what they said

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you know they're a good bunch X yeah I

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think I was there for one of your really

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early presentation that a great crowd

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yeah you there for one of my talks a

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great a great great great bunch of

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skeptics we have dr. rachy reports

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looking at the fun and games of the

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anti-vaccination loons I

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and learns what do you mean what we'll

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ask dr. 'he who shoot ellis does Oliver

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and wrap up the show we've got the think

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tank of course quite a popular segment

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from some of the reports we've been

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getting yeah we get people you mailing

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us wanting to be in the think tank

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unfortunately they're like in the United

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States so I say well if you want to fly

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over and join us in the club having an

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airfare and hotel bill won't fix now

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apart from that I mean if that's not

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enough my week's been taken up by

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helping one of our reporters dr. Karen

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stalls now who's now the editor of the

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skeptic magazine in putting that

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together are two great publication about

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to become even better about to become

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even better they'll be hitting our

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subscribers are next week I thinks we

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can you been using some high-tech

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software like indesign and will yes well

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it's pretty techie stuff Richard icky

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stuff notice I don't how you do it all

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this concern is east on the TV show the

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one is he's got the podcast happening

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the zone he's got the mag happening he's

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got the website how do you do it I don't

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think I do enough I don't think I do

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enough so look I tell you what I'm gonna

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go have a little lie down now maybe get

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some Reiki that's a good idea maybe take

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some hobo food yeah homeopathic remedies

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would be lovely for you may be a bit of

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gut flush bit of the old good old gut

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feeling cleansing 123 gut flusher exert

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we'll listen to the show and we'll come

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back no worries have a good nap Richard

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and our folks enjoy the program episode

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dr. Carolyn wat is a senior lecturer of

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psychology and Edinburgh University she

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also specializes in parapsychology and

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runs an online course and we have

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Carolyn on the line now from M bruh good

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good morning is it or afternoon or

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evening good evening from Edinburgh and

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good morning from Sydney i love these

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time zones I'm very curious indeed about

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what you do there the parapsychology and

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first of all can you spend a moment in

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trying to dispel some of the myths and

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stereotypes around what you do mm-hmm

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and well I'm not a Ghostbuster and I'm

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an academic my job title is actually

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senior lecturer in psychology but my

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area of expertise is parapsychology so a

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lot of what I do is just regular you

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know I teach statistics I supervise

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students doing postgraduate degrees and

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undergraduate degrees and the research i

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do some of it is about psychology of

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belief in the paranormal which is pretty

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straightforward psychology and some of

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it is about testing the hypothesis that

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people have paranormal abilities so it's

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a bit of a mixture and it's never going

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out and sitting in a squizzle a haunted

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location waiting things to go bump in

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the night oh that's a video I do that

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sometimes and I'm still waiting for that

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bump to occur but sometimes I get out

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there and do that what when you say you

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do some of the testing man you if you're

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not waiting for things to go bump in the

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night exactly what sort of tests or

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examinations have you've been involved

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with well I mean I study that recently

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and finished is with a postgraduate

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student of mine where we're looking into

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the the claim of distance healing or

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psychic healing and we did a little

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trial with arthritis patients where we

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had a double-blinded design where the

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patients didn't know whether or not they

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were receiving distant healing

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and so there would be a test of the

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hypothesis that a person who claims that

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they can heal someone at a distance

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whether that actually has any effect

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when you ask that the patients in the

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trial to report their pain symptoms and

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their well-being are subject to report

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of the well-being so that's a sort of

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example the kind of thing that I've done

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recently do you find that many people

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who are involved these sort of tests

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especially students are somewhat hopeful

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or optimistic of a positive outcome or

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are they simply ready to accept the

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outcome be it positive or negative you

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mean notnot volunteers interpreted in

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experiments for the actual students who

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are running the studies yeah yeah well

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let me let me reflect rephrase that

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maybe both I mean maybe you get people

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who are volunteering who also have

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preconceptions and expect one thing I

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would say the volunteers they tend to be

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curious but they're curious about the

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paranormal limit they may have had the

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odd experience but they don't generally

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regard themselves as psychic so that we

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don't work with people who come to

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edinburgh and say I'm psychic let me

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show you how psychic i am under

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controlled conditions so we don't work

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with us to person and the students are

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they're very very much I mean some

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students and I think that the the best

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approach to have is this on the proper

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scientific approach which should be

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questioning you know or not that's a

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skeptical approach actually it's

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questioning it's just saying well I'm

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going to test this hypothesis what does

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the data tell us and that's just

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straight for science as far as I'm

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concerned you're absolutely right do you

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suffer doing what you do there do you

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suffer the jibes and jokes from any

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other people or Department saying you're

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the molder of the veteran Barry

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University of X file jokes will silly

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things like that no not from my

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colleagues they probably know better

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than to try to do that and you do get

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the odds corny joke about oh didn't you

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see that coming

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but no I mean I think that those who

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know what what I do respect the work

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they do they can see that you were

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attempting to do proper science in a

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responsible way and it's a very good

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subject parapsychology is a great

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subject for teaching students about

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methodology because if you're going to

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test the claim that there's this

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supposed ability to communicate through

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soft alone you've got to be really

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careful about how you design your

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experiments so I think students can

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layer not learn a lot about methodology

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in science through testing paranormal

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hypotheses that's very interesting you

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should say that because when I'm not

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busily working on the skeptics oh and of

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course I'm doing a show for students

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school show here in Australia called

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mystery investigators and one of the

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tests we do live on stage for high

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school students to demonstrate how a

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double-blind test works is we use the

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the claim of water dowsing or water

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divining and the kids are really get a

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kick out of it because it's a

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fascinating claim the sticks wobble and

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move and before they know what they're

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being taught how to do a double-blind

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test so I I think I think personally and

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I guess I'm biased like this but I

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really think it's a great way to teach

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science because you've got the hook

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there which engages the imagination

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definitely it's it's something that just

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creates bums on seats as you would say

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students love it and and the students in

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my course that I teach a final year

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undergraduate course in parapsychology

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and although it's not designed as a

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methodology course they all come out of

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it saying that they've actually learned

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you know incidentally they've learned a

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huge amount about methodology in

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psychology but by studying

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parapsychology and and what you're

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saying about blind methods apparently

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and I'm not a historian but average

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historians who said that the the first

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use of blind methods in science was in

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testing the claim of mesmerist seeeeee

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that they could influence a patient at a

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distance and that they did this by

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putting a cotton or a barrier between

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the mesmerist and the patient and that

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was a claim of a paranormal influence

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and it just shows you that and

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it can push push methodology no

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straightforward things like placebo

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effects and using blind methods can

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arise out of testing unusual or

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anomalous claims absolutely and as I

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said before I think it's so engaging I

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mean there's a certain percentage of the

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population yourself and myself certainly

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included and what I find many students

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for whom this topic is endlessly

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fascinating and I note that in a recent

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interview you did for the skeptic

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magazine here in Australia you quoted as

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00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:08,940
saying that it's just so interesting

273
00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:12,330
what you do well you never know what's

274
00:11:17,180 --> 00:11:14,610
going to happen next I mean a lot of it

275
00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:17,190
is is normal academic stuff like looking

276
00:11:21,710 --> 00:11:19,650
at exam papers and and meeting with

277
00:11:23,390 --> 00:11:21,720
students but you get phone calls from

278
00:11:24,710 --> 00:11:23,400
people who having strange things

279
00:11:26,210 --> 00:11:24,720
happening in their house you have to try

280
00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:26,220
to discuss with them what might be going

281
00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:29,850
on and you get a lot of approaches from

282
00:11:33,260 --> 00:11:31,650
the media you know because it's

283
00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:33,270
interesting from that point of view so

284
00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:34,890
those communication with members of the

285
00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:38,610
public directly and with the through the

286
00:11:43,490 --> 00:11:40,770
media to the public which I think so an

287
00:11:44,900 --> 00:11:43,500
important part of my job now can you

288
00:11:47,330 --> 00:11:44,910
tell me a little bit about how your

289
00:11:48,830 --> 00:11:47,340
online course works and what it's like

290
00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:48,840
to have students from all over the world

291
00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:50,610
including I must say some here in

292
00:11:56,750 --> 00:11:54,090
Australia yeah and this was my big

293
00:11:59,180 --> 00:11:56,760
project last year I sort of developed

294
00:12:00,800 --> 00:11:59,190
this course from from out of nothing and

295
00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:00,810
never having done anything like this

296
00:12:05,390 --> 00:12:03,930
before and it's it's a it's an open

297
00:12:07,850 --> 00:12:05,400
studies course which means that you

298
00:12:11,180 --> 00:12:07,860
don't need to have any qualifications to

299
00:12:13,070 --> 00:12:11,190
join you also do not receive any

300
00:12:15,140 --> 00:12:13,080
qualification from taking part in the

301
00:12:18,890 --> 00:12:15,150
course so it's for personal education or

302
00:12:20,930 --> 00:12:18,900
personal interest only and you come on

303
00:12:23,660 --> 00:12:20,940
so that our website and you can register

304
00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:23,670
for the course online and then the

305
00:12:28,190 --> 00:12:26,490
course materials of course runs over 11

306
00:12:30,170 --> 00:12:28,200
weeks the course materials are all

307
00:12:32,660 --> 00:12:30,180
presented on what we call virtual

308
00:12:34,250 --> 00:12:32,670
learning environment that's and the

309
00:12:37,010 --> 00:12:34,260
platform that they had Maria university

310
00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:37,020
uses and the lovely thing about it is

311
00:12:40,490 --> 00:12:39,210
that a that you can have people from all

312
00:12:42,380 --> 00:12:40,500
around the world which i think is

313
00:12:44,300 --> 00:12:42,390
fantastic although I have to admit I

314
00:12:46,610 --> 00:12:44,310
it's biased towards English language and

315
00:12:48,650 --> 00:12:46,620
it you've got to be able to speak

316
00:12:49,220 --> 00:12:48,660
English you've gotta be semi computer

317
00:12:51,230 --> 00:12:49,230
literate

318
00:12:54,290 --> 00:12:51,240
in order to be able to download files

319
00:12:57,470 --> 00:12:54,300
and so on and but it also allows you to

320
00:13:00,320 --> 00:12:57,480
abandon the usual lecture format which I

321
00:13:02,690 --> 00:13:00,330
think can be quite passive and boring

322
00:13:04,340 --> 00:13:02,700
for students even the most interesting

323
00:13:07,610 --> 00:13:04,350
lecturer it's sort of one-way

324
00:13:08,630 --> 00:13:07,620
interaction and with an online course

325
00:13:10,940 --> 00:13:08,640
you can have all sorts of different

326
00:13:13,310 --> 00:13:10,950
materials so I've got interviews with

327
00:13:15,740 --> 00:13:13,320
experts I've got self-test two quizzes

328
00:13:19,340 --> 00:13:15,750
I've got downloads of journal articles

329
00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:19,350
I've got book chapters so there are lots

330
00:13:22,790 --> 00:13:20,730
of different kinds of materials that you

331
00:13:24,740 --> 00:13:22,800
can use to help engage the students

332
00:13:26,660 --> 00:13:24,750
probably the best thing the students

333
00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:26,670
like is there discussion groups which

334
00:13:30,620 --> 00:13:29,130
are just basic vlogs and each week

335
00:13:33,770 --> 00:13:30,630
there's a themed discussion group and

336
00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:33,780
students post an essay or a soft starter

337
00:13:37,310 --> 00:13:35,730
discussion and then they all discuss it

338
00:13:39,500 --> 00:13:37,320
amongst themselves so they actually

339
00:13:41,390 --> 00:13:39,510
learn a lot from considering what each

340
00:13:43,460 --> 00:13:41,400
other is saying and perhaps creating

341
00:13:45,860 --> 00:13:43,470
each other if someone says something or

342
00:13:48,470 --> 00:13:45,870
raises a question so it's a wonderful

343
00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:48,480
way of engaging with the subject in with

344
00:13:54,110 --> 00:13:51,330
a lot of variety of learning materials

345
00:13:58,250 --> 00:13:54,120
and I imagine that you also learn a lot

346
00:14:00,110 --> 00:13:58,260
from your students yes I think it's it's

347
00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:00,120
a sort of a reminder of the different

348
00:14:04,060 --> 00:14:01,650
perspectives that people are bringing to

349
00:14:06,290 --> 00:14:04,070
the subject and the students themselves

350
00:14:08,270 --> 00:14:06,300
some of them I mean actually my first

351
00:14:10,070 --> 00:14:08,280
course ran just before Christmas and I

352
00:14:12,290 --> 00:14:10,080
had a little question here at the end of

353
00:14:13,790 --> 00:14:12,300
it and I was asking them what their

354
00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:13,800
beliefs were about the paranormal

355
00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:15,330
because I really didn't know who my

356
00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:17,850
customers were and it was interesting it

357
00:14:22,090 --> 00:14:20,130
was a it was an even balance of skeptics

358
00:14:25,460 --> 00:14:22,100
what you call skeptics and believers

359
00:14:27,470 --> 00:14:25,470
some people were quite strong proponents

360
00:14:30,170 --> 00:14:27,480
but they were still willing to listen to

361
00:14:32,060 --> 00:14:30,180
alternative viewpoints and there were

362
00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:32,070
other people who were strong counter

363
00:14:35,900 --> 00:14:34,650
advocates who thankfully so far have

364
00:14:37,460 --> 00:14:35,910
been respectful of other people's

365
00:14:40,490 --> 00:14:37,470
opinions even if they don't agree with

366
00:14:42,590 --> 00:14:40,500
them so it's it's it's very nice to see

367
00:14:43,850 --> 00:14:42,600
that interaction and to learn you know

368
00:14:47,150 --> 00:14:43,860
what assumptions other people are

369
00:14:49,130 --> 00:14:47,160
bringing to the subject I'm I imagine it

370
00:14:52,010 --> 00:14:49,140
is and I imagine there as you say there

371
00:14:53,900 --> 00:14:52,020
are people coming on to somehow confirm

372
00:14:57,680 --> 00:14:53,910
what they already think they know in

373
00:15:00,770 --> 00:14:57,690
some respects and do you have you

374
00:15:02,150 --> 00:15:00,780
encountered the case where you'd get a

375
00:15:04,759 --> 00:15:02,160
very strong beetle

376
00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:04,769
eva coming along and being somewhat

377
00:15:10,069 --> 00:15:07,050
crestfallen or disbelieving or

378
00:15:13,189 --> 00:15:10,079
dismissive of the results if they're

379
00:15:15,079 --> 00:15:13,199
negative well I had one student who was

380
00:15:17,569 --> 00:15:15,089
disappointed because he thought the

381
00:15:20,119 --> 00:15:17,579
course would teach him how to test is

382
00:15:23,749 --> 00:15:20,129
like a claimant's so he wanted to be

383
00:15:25,790 --> 00:15:23,759
given a sort of practical guide as it

384
00:15:28,699 --> 00:15:25,800
were to how you taste people who claim

385
00:15:30,290 --> 00:15:28,709
certain psychic abilities and the course

386
00:15:32,210 --> 00:15:30,300
is actually much broader than that so

387
00:15:34,429 --> 00:15:32,220
that's covered in one week but not in

388
00:15:38,319 --> 00:15:34,439
any comprehensive way and I've had a

389
00:15:40,670 --> 00:15:38,329
coupla students who said they were a bit

390
00:15:42,410 --> 00:15:40,680
well they were a bit disappointed

391
00:15:44,900 --> 00:15:42,420
because the literature was less

392
00:15:46,579 --> 00:15:44,910
clear-cut than they thought so they

393
00:15:49,759 --> 00:15:46,589
thought that there was strong evidence

394
00:15:51,110 --> 00:15:49,769
for psy and actually the material that

395
00:15:53,269 --> 00:15:51,120
I'm showing them sure was that there's

396
00:15:55,790 --> 00:15:53,279
debate about that and I wouldn't say

397
00:15:58,249 --> 00:15:55,800
they were disappointed but they're just

398
00:15:59,960 --> 00:15:58,259
sort of brought up shorts and they sort

399
00:16:02,689 --> 00:15:59,970
of realized they didn't have the full

400
00:16:04,249 --> 00:16:02,699
picture before yes that that wouldn't

401
00:16:08,150 --> 00:16:04,259
surprise me at all do you find that

402
00:16:10,730 --> 00:16:08,160
there is a great misconception about the

403
00:16:12,679 --> 00:16:10,740
whole area and well if you get

404
00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:12,689
misconceptions on both sides of course

405
00:16:17,509 --> 00:16:15,810
because sometimes skeptics who who

406
00:16:19,309 --> 00:16:17,519
haven't familiarize themselves with

407
00:16:21,259 --> 00:16:19,319
literature you know will make sweeping

408
00:16:23,629 --> 00:16:21,269
statements such as you know all the

409
00:16:26,269 --> 00:16:23,639
methodologies poor or there's no

410
00:16:28,670 --> 00:16:26,279
positive results anywhere and in fact

411
00:16:30,110 --> 00:16:28,680
there are some quite well done studies

412
00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:30,120
that have come up with positive results

413
00:16:34,670 --> 00:16:32,370
and then the question is then well how

414
00:16:36,379 --> 00:16:34,680
do you interpret those results so

415
00:16:38,509 --> 00:16:36,389
there's their strong statements made on

416
00:16:41,090 --> 00:16:38,519
either side that some believers have

417
00:16:42,860 --> 00:16:41,100
perhaps it been misled by some some

418
00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:42,870
parapsychologists who've overstated the

419
00:16:49,249 --> 00:16:46,410
case and I just feel that for my point

420
00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:49,259
of view it's certainly not an easy

421
00:16:52,429 --> 00:16:50,490
answer to the question what's the

422
00:16:54,889 --> 00:16:52,439
evidence for sigh I don't think the

423
00:16:57,470 --> 00:16:54,899
evidence is there to provide the answer

424
00:16:59,480 --> 00:16:57,480
yet right that that's an interesting

425
00:17:02,449 --> 00:16:59,490
that's an interesting way to put it now

426
00:17:04,279 --> 00:17:02,459
is it from your point of view just

427
00:17:07,100 --> 00:17:04,289
getting back to the online aspects of it

428
00:17:09,470 --> 00:17:07,110
is it a really successful way to teach

429
00:17:11,779 --> 00:17:09,480
in your opinion or I mean I guess it's

430
00:17:14,750 --> 00:17:11,789
relatively new this whole approach but

431
00:17:15,710 --> 00:17:14,760
we are getting on in the in this decade

432
00:17:17,929 --> 00:17:15,720
so it's it's no

433
00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:17,939
thing to novel do you find it being

434
00:17:22,909 --> 00:17:19,770
quite successful for you at the moment I

435
00:17:25,490 --> 00:17:22,919
said yes it is the first course sold out

436
00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:25,500
overnight so it was fully booked within

437
00:17:30,980 --> 00:17:28,730
24 hours of it being advertised the

438
00:17:34,190 --> 00:17:30,990
university I think it's the way for the

439
00:17:35,779 --> 00:17:34,200
future and certainly Edinburgh were not

440
00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:35,789
quite up to speed with online learning

441
00:17:39,740 --> 00:17:38,250
yet there's I still get the feeling and

442
00:17:42,740 --> 00:17:39,750
when I was developing the course I felt

443
00:17:46,310 --> 00:17:42,750
like a pioneer which shouldn't really be

444
00:17:50,510 --> 00:17:46,320
in any or 2009 and you know this should

445
00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:50,520
be normal and it's it over a lot of

446
00:17:54,740 --> 00:17:53,010
people had to learn how to make this

447
00:17:57,890 --> 00:17:54,750
course happen you know it wasn't

448
00:17:59,810 --> 00:17:57,900
straight forward but to me it's the

449
00:18:02,840 --> 00:17:59,820
future it's it's sort of saves a lot of

450
00:18:05,210 --> 00:18:02,850
resources you know you can learn and

451
00:18:08,360 --> 00:18:05,220
have access to material without the

452
00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:08,370
travel without using the lecture

453
00:18:13,070 --> 00:18:10,890
theatres and so on and you can do it at

454
00:18:15,950 --> 00:18:13,080
your own time a time when when suits you

455
00:18:18,710 --> 00:18:15,960
so to me is the way that future

456
00:18:20,930 --> 00:18:18,720
education should happen now my course is

457
00:18:24,380 --> 00:18:20,940
non-accredited which means that I don't

458
00:18:26,360 --> 00:18:24,390
mark any assessments and if it was to be

459
00:18:28,220 --> 00:18:26,370
an accredited course then there would be

460
00:18:30,649 --> 00:18:28,230
more engagement with the students they

461
00:18:32,360 --> 00:18:30,659
would have to submit essays for example

462
00:18:33,649 --> 00:18:32,370
and I'd have to mark them so they'd

463
00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:33,659
still be some of the traditional

464
00:18:37,490 --> 00:18:35,850
assessment would have to take place but

465
00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:37,500
you'll be much more flexible because

466
00:18:40,700 --> 00:18:39,210
that could be sent in online rather than

467
00:18:43,909 --> 00:18:40,710
the student pretty and your pigeon hole

468
00:18:46,370 --> 00:18:43,919
so for me it's the the way ahead oh I

469
00:18:49,539 --> 00:18:46,380
totally agree in fact even right now

470
00:18:52,430 --> 00:18:49,549
here we are chatting with each other and

471
00:18:54,799 --> 00:18:52,440
its face to face because we're both on

472
00:18:57,440 --> 00:18:54,809
our each other's video screens as it

473
00:19:00,049 --> 00:18:57,450
were yeah it's wonderful isn't it that's

474
00:19:03,649 --> 00:19:00,059
quite right what my internet connections

475
00:19:07,039 --> 00:19:03,659
continues to be reliable well so far so

476
00:19:08,390 --> 00:19:07,049
good now finally Caroline this has been

477
00:19:10,010 --> 00:19:08,400
wonderful to chat with you it is a

478
00:19:13,700 --> 00:19:10,020
fascinating topic I mean it's one of the

479
00:19:16,190 --> 00:19:13,710
reasons I do what I do because I I can't

480
00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:16,200
see how I could ever be bored with this

481
00:19:20,180 --> 00:19:17,730
topic there's always something

482
00:19:23,470 --> 00:19:20,190
interesting on you and even if it

483
00:19:25,490 --> 00:19:23,480
largely does boil down to more or less a

484
00:19:27,169 --> 00:19:25,500
psychology because you are looking at

485
00:19:29,230 --> 00:19:27,179
the way people believe things and why

486
00:19:32,790 --> 00:19:29,240
they believe them and why they've been

487
00:19:35,620 --> 00:19:32,800
led to look at things a certain way so I

488
00:19:37,990 --> 00:19:35,630
I just love the fact that there are

489
00:19:40,990 --> 00:19:38,000
people like you out there exploring this

490
00:19:45,460 --> 00:19:41,000
and online what could be better if my

491
00:19:47,260 --> 00:19:45,470
listeners are now so keen to to join

492
00:19:49,060 --> 00:19:47,270
your course and join the queue for your

493
00:19:51,790 --> 00:19:49,070
course I imagine how can they get some

494
00:19:54,340 --> 00:19:51,800
more information and well if they go to

495
00:19:56,890 --> 00:19:54,350
the curler parapsychology unit website

496
00:19:59,110 --> 00:19:56,900
then they'll find some pages about the

497
00:20:02,170 --> 00:19:59,120
course on there and a link to the

498
00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:02,180
registration page so just look look for

499
00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:03,890
us on Google you should find us quite

500
00:20:09,010 --> 00:20:06,410
easily and I think I think you're quite

501
00:20:11,170 --> 00:20:09,020
right it's it's whether or not sigh

502
00:20:13,420 --> 00:20:11,180
exists the fact is that lots of people

503
00:20:14,770 --> 00:20:13,430
believe in the paranormal and lots of

504
00:20:17,530 --> 00:20:14,780
people have experiences that they think

505
00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:17,540
a paranormal yeah therefore it's only

506
00:20:21,130 --> 00:20:19,490
it's a kind of a no-brainer that people

507
00:20:22,900 --> 00:20:21,140
should be investigating these questions

508
00:20:25,390 --> 00:20:22,910
both from a psychology point of view and

509
00:20:28,210 --> 00:20:25,400
at least give some consideration to the

510
00:20:29,770 --> 00:20:28,220
paranormal issue as well well if it

511
00:20:32,290 --> 00:20:29,780
wasn't for this whole topic I'd have to

512
00:20:33,820 --> 00:20:32,300
go back and do web pages for one of our

513
00:20:36,870 --> 00:20:33,830
large banks which I used to do and I'd

514
00:20:39,580 --> 00:20:36,880
rather do this believe me absolutely

515
00:20:41,380 --> 00:20:39,590
well Caroline thank you very much for

516
00:20:44,490 --> 00:20:41,390
talking to the skeptic zone all the way

517
00:20:58,830 --> 00:20:44,500
over there in Scotland it's my pleasure

518
00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:01,620
let's all take this with a grain of salt

519
00:21:13,570 --> 00:21:10,690
hello this is a Rancic of taking life

520
00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:13,580
with a grain of salt as our listeners

521
00:21:17,140 --> 00:21:15,770
probably all know the state of Victoria

522
00:21:19,690 --> 00:21:17,150
in southern Australia was gripped by

523
00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:19,700
bush fires earlier this month the bush

524
00:21:23,460 --> 00:21:21,770
fires were unprecedented in the severity

525
00:21:27,070 --> 00:21:23,470
and the amount of damage they caused

526
00:21:28,990 --> 00:21:27,080
more than 200 people died at least 1,800

527
00:21:31,180 --> 00:21:29,000
homes have been lost and two towns were

528
00:21:34,420 --> 00:21:31,190
completely razed in what was Australia's

529
00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:34,430
worst peacetime disaster a disaster of

530
00:21:38,410 --> 00:21:36,290
this magnitude is sure to raise some

531
00:21:40,390 --> 00:21:38,420
questions of culpability in the blame

532
00:21:43,150 --> 00:21:40,400
game started while some fires were still

533
00:21:45,610 --> 00:21:43,160
raging some of those blamed were either

534
00:21:47,170 --> 00:21:45,620
obviously at fault such as the arsonist

535
00:21:49,750 --> 00:21:47,180
who started at least some of the files

536
00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:49,760
or obviously not at fault such as the

537
00:21:53,770 --> 00:21:51,530
Victorian Parliament which was blamed by

538
00:21:55,690 --> 00:21:53,780
some religious whack job of causing the

539
00:21:58,480 --> 00:21:55,700
fires by decriminalizing abortion in

540
00:22:01,420 --> 00:21:58,490
Victoria yet for others the case is not

541
00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:01,430
so clear among those whose potential or

542
00:22:05,260 --> 00:22:03,170
responsibility was mentioned and should

543
00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:05,270
be considered I will noted in particular

544
00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:07,850
the environmental movement the residents

545
00:22:12,700 --> 00:22:10,970
themselves and global warming it could

546
00:22:15,220 --> 00:22:12,710
take experts many months to come to some

547
00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:15,230
conclusions as to the causes even then

548
00:22:19,420 --> 00:22:17,210
the answers are unlikely to be clear-cut

549
00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:19,430
or show one of those mentioned as

550
00:22:23,410 --> 00:22:21,170
responsible to the exclusion of the

551
00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:23,420
others so any attempt by me to pass

552
00:22:27,430 --> 00:22:25,850
judgement would be ill conceived are

553
00:22:29,350 --> 00:22:27,440
therefore do not intend to come to any

554
00:22:32,950 --> 00:22:29,360
conclusions just to raise some questions

555
00:22:34,780 --> 00:22:32,960
about some of the claims made the case

556
00:22:36,490 --> 00:22:34,790
for the culpability of the environmental

557
00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:36,500
movement is based around to fire

558
00:22:40,810 --> 00:22:38,210
management activities that can be

559
00:22:44,470 --> 00:22:40,820
undertaken in bush areas clearing and

560
00:22:46,420 --> 00:22:44,480
fuel reduction burning clearing is the

561
00:22:48,010 --> 00:22:46,430
removal of fuel materials such as trees

562
00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:48,020
and shrubs from areas surrounding

563
00:22:52,630 --> 00:22:50,690
properties to be protected the scale of

564
00:22:55,360 --> 00:22:52,640
clearing can range from removing trees

565
00:22:57,010 --> 00:22:55,370
to overhanging parts of a house through

566
00:22:59,500 --> 00:22:57,020
the creation of a clear area with a

567
00:23:01,060 --> 00:22:59,510
radius of two tree heights to clear

568
00:23:04,300 --> 00:23:01,070
failing acres of land around the

569
00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:04,310
property fuel reduction burning is the

570
00:23:08,470 --> 00:23:05,810
process of using favourable conditions

571
00:23:10,150 --> 00:23:08,480
such as cold days with no wind to burn

572
00:23:13,120 --> 00:23:10,160
the leaves branches and bark that

573
00:23:14,740 --> 00:23:13,130
accumulate under trees because trees are

574
00:23:17,260 --> 00:23:14,750
slower to catch fire than this dry

575
00:23:18,100 --> 00:23:17,270
material files are less likely to start

576
00:23:20,650 --> 00:23:18,110
in fuel reduce

577
00:23:22,299 --> 00:23:20,660
areas and files that do not have the

578
00:23:26,049 --> 00:23:22,309
benefit of this fuel are likely to be

579
00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:26,059
easier to control the claim that puts

580
00:23:28,780 --> 00:23:27,530
the environmental movement in the hot

581
00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:28,790
seat is that their political

582
00:23:32,860 --> 00:23:30,650
representatives the Australian Greens

583
00:23:34,780 --> 00:23:32,870
have used their political power to

584
00:23:36,460 --> 00:23:34,790
prevent residents in thick bush areas

585
00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:36,470
from clearing the land around their

586
00:23:41,070 --> 00:23:38,570
properties and to stop the authorities

587
00:23:43,660 --> 00:23:41,080
from conducting fuel reduction burning

588
00:23:45,610 --> 00:23:43,670
opinion pieces letters and calls to

589
00:23:47,620 --> 00:23:45,620
radio talk shows stop blaming the Greens

590
00:23:49,419 --> 00:23:47,630
appeared in Australian media as early as

591
00:23:51,970 --> 00:23:49,429
the Monday following Black Saturday and

592
00:23:54,090 --> 00:23:51,980
continued as the death toll rose and the

593
00:23:57,070 --> 00:23:54,100
enormity of the situation became clear

594
00:23:58,870 --> 00:23:57,080
one particularly vocal critic was a

595
00:24:01,210 --> 00:23:58,880
resident who was fined thousands of

596
00:24:02,890 --> 00:24:01,220
dollars by the local council after he

597
00:24:04,570 --> 00:24:02,900
ignored their bylaws and cleared the

598
00:24:07,990 --> 00:24:04,580
land around his property which then

599
00:24:10,360 --> 00:24:08,000
survived the fires on the face of it the

600
00:24:12,730 --> 00:24:10,370
criticism seems to be justified but a

601
00:24:14,980 --> 00:24:12,740
few questions come up the two most

602
00:24:16,750 --> 00:24:14,990
important ones in my opinion or whether

603
00:24:19,060 --> 00:24:16,760
the claims are actually true beyond a

604
00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:19,070
few anecdotes and weather clearing and

605
00:24:23,530 --> 00:24:20,570
fuel reduction burning would have made a

606
00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:23,540
significant difference to establish that

607
00:24:27,430 --> 00:24:25,610
the claims are true a pattern of

608
00:24:30,070 --> 00:24:27,440
refusing permission to perform clearing

609
00:24:31,690 --> 00:24:30,080
needs to be shown such a pattern would

610
00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:31,700
need to also be different from the past

611
00:24:35,710 --> 00:24:33,650
in which the greens were not as

612
00:24:38,409 --> 00:24:35,720
politically powerful as they are now in

613
00:24:40,630 --> 00:24:38,419
particular the laws and regulations will

614
00:24:42,340 --> 00:24:40,640
need to have either changed or more

615
00:24:44,500 --> 00:24:42,350
stringently enforced in recent times

616
00:24:47,230 --> 00:24:44,510
then when the towns affected by the bush

617
00:24:49,659 --> 00:24:47,240
fires were founded that last point is

618
00:24:52,299 --> 00:24:49,669
crucial we know the residents of those

619
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:52,309
towns chose to live in bush areas and by

620
00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:54,410
that they implicitly accepted some risk

621
00:24:58,240 --> 00:24:56,450
the question of whether the risk was

622
00:25:00,130 --> 00:24:58,250
increased after they were already in

623
00:25:02,710 --> 00:25:00,140
possession of their land is a key

624
00:25:04,419 --> 00:25:02,720
question I have not been able to

625
00:25:06,789 --> 00:25:04,429
determine whether there has been such a

626
00:25:08,710 --> 00:25:06,799
pattern there is a lot of information

627
00:25:10,390 --> 00:25:08,720
available about this question but I

628
00:25:13,450 --> 00:25:10,400
could not find any that came from a

629
00:25:15,250 --> 00:25:13,460
neutral source when information

630
00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:15,260
presented matches the interests of the

631
00:25:19,900 --> 00:25:17,330
entity presenting it I tend to be

632
00:25:21,730 --> 00:25:19,910
cautious about accepting it it is also

633
00:25:23,830 --> 00:25:21,740
obviously possible or even likely that

634
00:25:26,799 --> 00:25:23,840
the situation varies between different

635
00:25:29,890 --> 00:25:26,809
localities whatever the case may be I

636
00:25:32,060 --> 00:25:29,900
will leave this question open to answer

637
00:25:33,350 --> 00:25:32,070
the second question some background is

638
00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:33,360
hired by the fires on this specific

639
00:25:38,390 --> 00:25:36,050
occasion and what was unique about them

640
00:25:40,790 --> 00:25:38,400
bush fires are common in the southeast

641
00:25:42,890 --> 00:25:40,800
of Australia indeed many Australian

642
00:25:45,860 --> 00:25:42,900
species of trees rely on fire to

643
00:25:47,630 --> 00:25:45,870
rejuvenate and reproduce droughts are

644
00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:47,640
also fairly common in the southeast of

645
00:25:51,740 --> 00:25:50,250
Australia the one lasting 10 years such

646
00:25:54,610 --> 00:25:51,750
as the one Victoria is in the midst of

647
00:25:57,410 --> 00:25:54,620
has not been experienced since the 1930s

648
00:25:59,090 --> 00:25:57,420
most importantly Victoria had been

649
00:26:01,760 --> 00:25:59,100
experiencing a heat wave that would make

650
00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:01,770
Hades squirm maximum temperatures

651
00:26:07,310 --> 00:26:04,050
regularly exceeded 40 degrees Celsius

652
00:26:08,870 --> 00:26:07,320
and were only below 30 45 days in the

653
00:26:10,610 --> 00:26:08,880
three weeks that culminates with the

654
00:26:13,430 --> 00:26:10,620
deadly fires on the seventh of February

655
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:13,440
on that day the temperatures sold to

656
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:16,770
forty six point four degrees in eucalypt

657
00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:18,810
forests which are usually enveloped in a

658
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:20,970
blue haze of etheric oils such

659
00:26:24,830 --> 00:26:22,770
temperatures mean that the concentration

660
00:26:28,010 --> 00:26:24,840
of oils is higher and the air is almost

661
00:26:30,410 --> 00:26:28,020
combustible add to that mix wind speeds

662
00:26:32,180 --> 00:26:30,420
in excess of 30 kilometers per hour with

663
00:26:34,460 --> 00:26:32,190
gusts of up to 50 kilometers per hour

664
00:26:36,470 --> 00:26:34,470
and it is not entirely certain that's

665
00:26:37,790 --> 00:26:36,480
under such circumstances if your

666
00:26:40,580 --> 00:26:37,800
reduction would have made much of a

667
00:26:42,170 --> 00:26:40,590
difference some of the stories told by

668
00:26:44,570 --> 00:26:42,180
people who were there including

669
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:44,580
firefighters described a wall of fire

670
00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:46,770
much higher than the trees and heat that

671
00:26:51,650 --> 00:26:48,570
surpassed anything they had experienced

672
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:51,660
before others described the fire rolling

673
00:26:56,060 --> 00:26:53,730
down hill and through cleared areas

674
00:26:58,310 --> 00:26:56,070
spanning hundreds of metres or moving at

675
00:26:59,570 --> 00:26:58,320
speeds of many kilometers per hour both

676
00:27:01,670 --> 00:26:59,580
of which cannot be explained by

677
00:27:03,170 --> 00:27:01,680
excessive fuel and both indicate that

678
00:27:05,090 --> 00:27:03,180
properties that had planned cleared

679
00:27:07,250 --> 00:27:05,100
around them would not necessarily have

680
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:07,260
been spared which is exactly what had

681
00:27:12,170 --> 00:27:10,170
occurred in many places firefighters

682
00:27:13,670 --> 00:27:12,180
repeatedly described the fires as being

683
00:27:17,630 --> 00:27:13,680
different to anything they had seen

684
00:27:19,670 --> 00:27:17,640
before and as unstoppable and finally on

685
00:27:22,700 --> 00:27:19,680
this point to the person who was fine

686
00:27:24,710 --> 00:27:22,710
for clearing land around his house Liam

687
00:27:26,780 --> 00:27:24,720
Sheehan had cleared to 100 meters around

688
00:27:29,420 --> 00:27:26,790
his property as opposed to the six

689
00:27:31,850 --> 00:27:29,430
meters allowed by the law or the 1.5

690
00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:31,860
tree heights recommended by CSIRO and

691
00:27:36,740 --> 00:27:34,290
was subsequently fined fifty thousand

692
00:27:38,780 --> 00:27:36,750
dollars he attributes the survival of

693
00:27:40,820 --> 00:27:38,790
his property to the clearing but other

694
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:40,830
properties in other areas that had

695
00:27:44,940 --> 00:27:43,050
larger clear areas around them did not

696
00:27:46,769 --> 00:27:44,950
survive

697
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:46,779
be fair to assume that the fact that mr.

698
00:27:50,580 --> 00:27:48,610
Sheehan himself and his son and daughter

699
00:27:52,529 --> 00:27:50,590
are all members of the country fire

700
00:27:54,539 --> 00:27:52,539
authority and our experienced

701
00:27:57,060 --> 00:27:54,549
firefighters might have had something to

702
00:27:59,299 --> 00:27:57,070
do with it surely there would be better

703
00:28:02,100 --> 00:27:59,309
equipped to protect their home than most

704
00:28:04,230 --> 00:28:02,110
this case raises the same question I

705
00:28:07,139 --> 00:28:04,240
mentioned earlier of what the rules were

706
00:28:08,850 --> 00:28:07,149
when mr. Sheehan bought his land if the

707
00:28:11,250 --> 00:28:08,860
law is prohibited clearing at the time

708
00:28:13,529 --> 00:28:11,260
then it is not at all clear that he's in

709
00:28:16,350 --> 00:28:13,539
the right even if the outcome for him

710
00:28:18,060 --> 00:28:16,360
was the saving of his property I've been

711
00:28:20,279 --> 00:28:18,070
unable to establish whether that is the

712
00:28:22,889 --> 00:28:20,289
case so that question too will remain

713
00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:22,899
open it is worth noting though that mr.

714
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:25,090
Sheehan is on record saying that he's

715
00:28:29,970 --> 00:28:27,690
going to try to get his fine reversed

716
00:28:31,769 --> 00:28:29,980
the descriptions of the weather in the

717
00:28:34,049 --> 00:28:31,779
weeks leading to the fires and the long

718
00:28:37,019 --> 00:28:34,059
drought naturally lead to global warming

719
00:28:40,019 --> 00:28:37,029
as a probable cause but here to a few

720
00:28:42,330 --> 00:28:40,029
questions are raised for one global

721
00:28:43,919 --> 00:28:42,340
warming is a statistical phenomenon it

722
00:28:46,279 --> 00:28:43,929
does not mean that temperatures get

723
00:28:49,019 --> 00:28:46,289
higher every year or in every location

724
00:28:50,430 --> 00:28:49,029
at the same time that Victoria has been

725
00:28:51,990 --> 00:28:50,440
suffering from a heat wave in

726
00:28:54,299 --> 00:28:52,000
temperatures 20 degrees higher than

727
00:28:56,700 --> 00:28:54,309
average Sydney in eastern New South

728
00:28:58,799 --> 00:28:56,710
Wales was experiencing only a slight

729
00:29:00,810 --> 00:28:58,809
increasing temperatures but parts of

730
00:29:02,279 --> 00:29:00,820
western New South Wales were having a

731
00:29:05,190 --> 00:29:02,289
similar experience to that of the

732
00:29:07,289 --> 00:29:05,200
Victorians then in the week after the

733
00:29:09,570 --> 00:29:07,299
fires temperatures throughout much of

734
00:29:12,629 --> 00:29:09,580
the three areas just mentioned dropped

735
00:29:14,879 --> 00:29:12,639
to several degrees below average to our

736
00:29:17,460 --> 00:29:14,889
international listeners Victoria is

737
00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:17,470
south of New South Wales the fires were

738
00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:19,570
about 800 kilometres south of Sydney

739
00:29:23,820 --> 00:29:21,970
since Australia is in the southern

740
00:29:26,580 --> 00:29:23,830
hemisphere you would expect that moving

741
00:29:28,860 --> 00:29:26,590
800 kilometres south ward would make the

742
00:29:31,039 --> 00:29:28,870
weather colder not warmer but climate

743
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:31,049
and weather are not as simple as that

744
00:29:36,180 --> 00:29:33,850
the drought which may have contributed

745
00:29:38,549 --> 00:29:36,190
to the fires has also been linked to

746
00:29:40,500 --> 00:29:38,559
global warming but while clearly a leak

747
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:40,510
cannot be ruled out the level of

748
00:29:44,519 --> 00:29:42,370
certainty of such a claim cannot be

749
00:29:46,649 --> 00:29:44,529
considered very high in an arid

750
00:29:48,690 --> 00:29:46,659
continent such as Australia in which

751
00:29:50,460 --> 00:29:48,700
fertile areas are around the corner from

752
00:29:53,970 --> 00:29:50,470
desert and which has suffered long

753
00:29:55,710 --> 00:29:53,980
droughts in the past so both the drought

754
00:29:58,230 --> 00:29:55,720
and the heat wave may be linked to

755
00:29:58,560 --> 00:29:58,240
global warming saw might even say they

756
00:30:00,720 --> 00:29:58,570
are like

757
00:30:02,279 --> 00:30:00,730
to be linked but a long term pattern

758
00:30:04,169 --> 00:30:02,289
would need to be established before

759
00:30:07,620 --> 00:30:04,179
specific events can be attributed to

760
00:30:09,779 --> 00:30:07,630
global warming the last party to have

761
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:09,789
been blamed though not by many are the

762
00:30:14,269 --> 00:30:12,610
residents themselves the claims against

763
00:30:17,070 --> 00:30:14,279
the residents were mostly of two types

764
00:30:18,629 --> 00:30:17,080
that they resided in a high-risk area in

765
00:30:20,639 --> 00:30:18,639
ways which increase the risk and that

766
00:30:23,490 --> 00:30:20,649
they failed to protect themselves in

767
00:30:25,169 --> 00:30:23,500
their properties the first claim centers

768
00:30:27,539 --> 00:30:25,179
around the basic risk of living in a

769
00:30:29,450 --> 00:30:27,549
bush fire prone area and the location of

770
00:30:32,100 --> 00:30:29,460
some of the town's at tops of ridges

771
00:30:33,810 --> 00:30:32,110
when there's a fire close by the last

772
00:30:36,029 --> 00:30:33,820
place you want to be is uphill from it

773
00:30:37,379 --> 00:30:36,039
if you're on a ridge you might have

774
00:30:39,869 --> 00:30:37,389
fires coming up from two different

775
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:39,879
directions and your only Escape is along

776
00:30:44,669 --> 00:30:42,490
the ridge if the escape route is also

777
00:30:48,210 --> 00:30:44,679
blocked by fire the situation can only

778
00:30:50,039 --> 00:30:48,220
be described as extremely serious the

779
00:30:51,690 --> 00:30:50,049
problem for residents in this case is

780
00:30:53,639 --> 00:30:51,700
that they would have had to be aware of

781
00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:53,649
this risk and might reasonably have had

782
00:30:57,180 --> 00:30:55,450
an expectation that planning authorities

783
00:30:59,220 --> 00:30:57,190
would have prohibited the establishment

784
00:31:02,129 --> 00:30:59,230
of towns in places that could so easily

785
00:31:04,049 --> 00:31:02,139
become death traps many of the residents

786
00:31:06,299 --> 00:31:04,059
in affected areas would not experience

787
00:31:08,070 --> 00:31:06,309
bush people but other people who moved

788
00:31:10,889 --> 00:31:08,080
out of cities in search of more or

789
00:31:12,629 --> 00:31:10,899
lifestyles they could not be expected to

790
00:31:15,899 --> 00:31:12,639
be experts on the risks of living in the

791
00:31:17,249 --> 00:31:15,909
bush the second claim that the residents

792
00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:17,259
failed to protect themselves and their

793
00:31:21,330 --> 00:31:19,690
properties is based on the fact that few

794
00:31:23,310 --> 00:31:21,340
people stay to protect their properties

795
00:31:26,460 --> 00:31:23,320
as is often the aussie tradition in

796
00:31:28,649 --> 00:31:26,470
cases of bushfires well all I have to

797
00:31:30,029 --> 00:31:28,659
say to those who make that criticism is

798
00:31:32,129 --> 00:31:30,039
that they should watch the videos that

799
00:31:34,619 --> 00:31:32,139
some residents took of the huge flames

800
00:31:37,139 --> 00:31:34,629
approaching so quickly and listen to the

801
00:31:39,450 --> 00:31:37,149
words of the firefighters this was not

802
00:31:41,850 --> 00:31:39,460
just any bush fire and if more people

803
00:31:44,999 --> 00:31:41,860
stayed behind the death toll would very

804
00:31:46,889 --> 00:31:45,009
likely have been higher I have tried in

805
00:31:49,649 --> 00:31:46,899
this talk to raise questions and not

806
00:31:51,930 --> 00:31:49,659
jump to conclusions as I mentioned at

807
00:31:54,269 --> 00:31:51,940
the start of the talk i think the true

808
00:31:55,759 --> 00:31:54,279
causes are varied probably include all

809
00:31:58,169 --> 00:31:55,769
elements mentioned to varying degrees

810
00:32:00,029 --> 00:31:58,179
and it will probably take a long time of

811
00:32:02,100 --> 00:32:00,039
expert work to sort out what has

812
00:32:03,930 --> 00:32:02,110
happened and what could be done to

813
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:03,940
perhaps alleviate some of the risk of a

814
00:32:09,930 --> 00:32:06,730
repeat I would urge listeners to take a

815
00:32:11,639 --> 00:32:09,940
skeptical approach ask questions don't

816
00:32:11,890 --> 00:32:11,649
make up your mind before the evidence is

817
00:32:14,290 --> 00:32:11,900
in

818
00:32:23,980 --> 00:32:14,300
and take the claims made by those with

819
00:32:26,050 --> 00:32:23,990
an agenda with a grain of salt well i'm

820
00:32:27,780 --> 00:32:26,060
here at Macquarie University in fact

821
00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:27,790
we're just going to lunch I'm with Duane

822
00:32:32,740 --> 00:32:30,410
homemaker does that help reduce it by

823
00:32:35,470 --> 00:32:32,750
Bakr hamaca and Tiffany day high too

824
00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:35,480
high Tiffany of course a reporter for

825
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:37,250
the skeptic zone and we've spent the

826
00:32:41,770 --> 00:32:40,010
morning bending spoons spoons water

827
00:32:43,350 --> 00:32:41,780
divining talking about ghosts here at

828
00:32:46,630 --> 00:32:43,360
the open week at Macquarie University

829
00:32:49,150 --> 00:32:46,640
now Dwayne this is the third day now how

830
00:32:50,980 --> 00:32:49,160
is it going it has gone fantastic I've

831
00:32:52,030 --> 00:32:50,990
been really impressed with the amount of

832
00:32:53,710 --> 00:32:52,040
people that have come in and showed

833
00:32:55,210 --> 00:32:53,720
interest we've had almost a hundred

834
00:32:56,590 --> 00:32:55,220
people actually probably more than our

835
00:32:58,180 --> 00:32:56,600
people because it looks like at about 50

836
00:32:59,770 --> 00:32:58,190
and 20 people sign up in that last hour

837
00:33:02,770 --> 00:32:59,780
yeah we've had over a hundred responses

838
00:33:04,420 --> 00:33:02,780
a lot of a lot of people coming in a lot

839
00:33:05,980 --> 00:33:04,430
of interest been generated and I've been

840
00:33:07,540 --> 00:33:05,990
quite surprised I didn't expect to get

841
00:33:09,910 --> 00:33:07,550
more than 30 40 people all week we've

842
00:33:11,860 --> 00:33:09,920
already almost tripled by the mouth now

843
00:33:14,140 --> 00:33:11,870
I must say the old stick a spoon bending

844
00:33:16,690 --> 00:33:14,150
is serving as well it is it is a lot of

845
00:33:18,190 --> 00:33:16,700
people are impressed some don't really

846
00:33:20,020 --> 00:33:18,200
care so much but for the most part

847
00:33:22,090 --> 00:33:20,030
people been very very impressed by it

848
00:33:23,950 --> 00:33:22,100
and that's actually drawn several people

849
00:33:25,660 --> 00:33:23,960
in the group we had a gun one go

850
00:33:28,660 --> 00:33:25,670
shrieking just a moment ago it was quite

851
00:33:30,550 --> 00:33:28,670
funny no I was very it's very good to

852
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:30,560
see an interesting comment I heard was

853
00:33:36,850 --> 00:33:33,890
somebody one young student was telling

854
00:33:39,850 --> 00:33:36,860
me how she was interested suddenly when

855
00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:39,860
she heard me say haunted houses now I

856
00:33:42,790 --> 00:33:41,570
don't know if there's any haunted

857
00:33:45,220 --> 00:33:42,800
locations around this neck of the woods

858
00:33:46,750 --> 00:33:45,230
I think pretty much everywhere the

859
00:33:48,220 --> 00:33:46,760
supposedly haunted houses I think you

860
00:33:49,750 --> 00:33:48,230
have to go further up in blue mountains

861
00:33:52,090 --> 00:33:49,760
or down by the rocks to really get the

862
00:33:54,130 --> 00:33:52,100
authentic haunted houses the authentic

863
00:33:56,590 --> 00:33:54,140
or as opposed to those fake haunted

864
00:33:58,360 --> 00:33:56,600
house you can't see my quotation marks

865
00:34:00,160 --> 00:33:58,370
in the air but yes the authentic haunted

866
00:34:01,990 --> 00:34:00,170
houses there goes to her group's down in

867
00:34:03,310 --> 00:34:02,000
the rocks quite frankly and I actually

868
00:34:05,350 --> 00:34:03,320
walked past them I go to work at the

869
00:34:06,910 --> 00:34:05,360
observatory and they've got a guy in the

870
00:34:09,070 --> 00:34:06,920
dark tape that he's talking on

871
00:34:10,090 --> 00:34:09,080
melodramatically and I kind of have to

872
00:34:11,860 --> 00:34:10,100
walk through the middle of the group

873
00:34:13,210 --> 00:34:11,870
every time and it's interesting to hear

874
00:34:14,460 --> 00:34:13,220
some of the stuff they talked about at

875
00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:14,470
the observatory I've actually had people

876
00:34:20,629 --> 00:34:18,210
ask me if the the grounds were haunted

877
00:34:22,099 --> 00:34:20,639
and sometimes I just say no but if I'm

878
00:34:23,629 --> 00:34:22,109
feeling a bit cheeky sometimes I'll tell

879
00:34:25,399 --> 00:34:23,639
them stories about how astronomers of

880
00:34:27,290 --> 00:34:25,409
have mysteriously died over the years

881
00:34:28,550 --> 00:34:27,300
but I used to hang people on that hill

882
00:34:30,139 --> 00:34:28,560
you know in the early days of the

883
00:34:32,359 --> 00:34:30,149
settlement all of course as always

884
00:34:33,889 --> 00:34:32,369
hangings everywhere yeah and there's a

885
00:34:36,290 --> 00:34:33,899
post supposedly little girl that haunts

886
00:34:37,490 --> 00:34:36,300
the place as well but some of the girls

887
00:34:38,899 --> 00:34:37,500
i should get very frightened and asked

888
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:38,909
me to stop talking when we're in the

889
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:40,050
telescope because they were getting

890
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:43,770
scared oh boy oh boy well it's really

891
00:34:47,540 --> 00:34:45,450
encouraging to be here and they say all

892
00:34:51,139 --> 00:34:47,550
the people come along and to the to the

893
00:34:52,730 --> 00:34:51,149
steel skeptic stand now people want to

894
00:34:55,419 --> 00:34:52,740
find out more about Macquarie skeptics

895
00:34:57,170 --> 00:34:55,429
way to the head Macquarie skeptics calm

896
00:34:59,210 --> 00:34:57,180
everything is there we've got all of our

897
00:35:03,400 --> 00:34:59,220
events we have a newsletter coming out

898
00:35:05,180 --> 00:35:03,410
this weekend on the what is that the

899
00:35:06,620 --> 00:35:05,190
27-6 something like that one of those

900
00:35:08,990 --> 00:35:06,630
days this weekend we have the newsletter

901
00:35:10,670 --> 00:35:09,000
coming out just full of articles puzzles

902
00:35:12,140 --> 00:35:10,680
details of all the events coming up

903
00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:12,150
including skeptics week which will be

904
00:35:16,970 --> 00:35:14,490
coming up about two weeks all that is on

905
00:35:18,829 --> 00:35:16,980
there lengthen everything so especially

906
00:35:20,870 --> 00:35:18,839
listeners in Australia skeptical

907
00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:20,880
students out there contact them Cory

908
00:35:24,470 --> 00:35:22,050
skeptics they can give you some pointers

909
00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:24,480
about starting your own skeptical outfit

910
00:35:36,230 --> 00:35:33,290
hi I'm Alice at eight host of the new by

911
00:35:38,090 --> 00:35:36,240
weekly podcast the pseudo-scientists the

912
00:35:40,670 --> 00:35:38,100
official podcast of the young Australian

913
00:35:43,340 --> 00:35:40,680
skeptics John Eliot birch daily breeders

914
00:35:45,590 --> 00:35:43,350
Jason ball Jack Scanlon k rush and

915
00:35:47,930 --> 00:35:45,600
myself to hear what our generation have

916
00:35:50,300 --> 00:35:47,940
to say about quackery science and the

917
00:35:55,810 --> 00:35:50,310
issues that concern us subscribe to our

918
00:36:06,260 --> 00:35:58,850
you're listening to the skeptic zone I'm

919
00:36:09,230 --> 00:36:06,270
Brian Dunning from SCAP thaicom now it's

920
00:36:14,300 --> 00:36:09,240
time for dr. Rachel reports with dr.

921
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:14,310
Rachel Dunlop hello everyone and welcome

922
00:36:19,970 --> 00:36:18,090
to dr. Rachel reports with recent talk

923
00:36:22,100 --> 00:36:19,980
about how the anti-vaccine crowd have

924
00:36:24,260 --> 00:36:22,110
affected rates of vaccination in the UK

925
00:36:25,910 --> 00:36:24,270
and the states I thought it might be

926
00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:25,920
interesting to look closer to home to

927
00:36:30,710 --> 00:36:29,010
see how Australia stacks up this week

928
00:36:32,810 --> 00:36:30,720
Medicare which is Australia's

929
00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:32,820
government-run health body released

930
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:34,650
figures from the Australian childhood

931
00:36:41,150 --> 00:36:37,530
immunization register which details the

932
00:36:43,730 --> 00:36:41,160
rate of immunization in Australia the

933
00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:43,740
latest figures are from December 2008

934
00:36:49,490 --> 00:36:46,050
and on the face of it it seems we are

935
00:36:51,110 --> 00:36:49,500
doing pretty well for kids aged up to 15

936
00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:51,120
months the national average for

937
00:36:57,200 --> 00:36:54,210
immunization is ninety-one percent with

938
00:36:59,840 --> 00:36:57,210
the lowest levels being 89.9 percent for

939
00:37:02,300 --> 00:36:59,850
Western Australia the national average

940
00:37:05,060 --> 00:37:02,310
falls to eighty eight point four percent

941
00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:05,070
in the up to five years old group with

942
00:37:09,340 --> 00:37:06,690
the lowest compliance of eighty five

943
00:37:11,780 --> 00:37:09,350
point five percent in South Australia

944
00:37:14,090 --> 00:37:11,790
but when you consider that approximately

945
00:37:16,940 --> 00:37:14,100
ninety percent vaccination is needed to

946
00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:16,950
obtain her immunity however this depends

947
00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:19,170
on the vaccine and the disease these

948
00:37:24,140 --> 00:37:22,530
figures are encouraging there are Rob

949
00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:24,150
Menzies from the National Center for

950
00:37:28,820 --> 00:37:26,210
immunization research and surveillance

951
00:37:31,070 --> 00:37:28,830
said that in some cases where there are

952
00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:31,080
low vaccination rates these are often

953
00:37:34,820 --> 00:37:33,090
more prevalent where well educated

954
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:34,830
parents did their own research and

955
00:37:39,740 --> 00:37:37,050
believed the myths that vaccines did

956
00:37:41,570 --> 00:37:39,750
more harm than good and this was

957
00:37:43,820 --> 00:37:41,580
reflected in figures for Sydney's

958
00:37:45,860 --> 00:37:43,830
exclusive eastern suburbs where

959
00:37:49,670 --> 00:37:45,870
includes the Harborview well-to-do

960
00:37:51,290 --> 00:37:49,680
suburbs of Double Bay and for clues now

961
00:37:52,910 --> 00:37:51,300
these were ranked the worst with only

962
00:37:55,670 --> 00:37:52,920
eighty percent of children in these

963
00:37:57,680 --> 00:37:55,680
areas being immunized and this was

964
00:38:00,080 --> 00:37:57,690
followed closely by the areas of lismore

965
00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:00,090
Alstonville and Byron Bay Witcher areas

966
00:38:05,630 --> 00:38:02,130
known for their alternative lifestyles

967
00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:05,640
so this is not a big surprise now since

968
00:38:09,290 --> 00:38:07,170
these figures have been released there

969
00:38:11,150 --> 00:38:09,300
has been much discussion and speculation

970
00:38:13,220 --> 00:38:11,160
about why the wealthy suburbs are

971
00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:13,230
seemingly less likely to get their kids

972
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:16,650
vaccinated one journalist described the

973
00:38:23,210 --> 00:38:19,770
parents as selfish dummy mummys needing

974
00:38:25,220 --> 00:38:23,220
their conscience pricked Adele Horan

975
00:38:26,570 --> 00:38:25,230
doesn't beat around the bush she

976
00:38:29,420 --> 00:38:26,580
reported in The Sydney Morning Herald

977
00:38:31,790 --> 00:38:29,430
that these are women who spend too many

978
00:38:34,010 --> 00:38:31,800
hours on wacky internet health sites and

979
00:38:37,610 --> 00:38:34,020
become convinced that immunization is a

980
00:38:40,370 --> 00:38:37,620
great conspiracy she further described

981
00:38:41,540 --> 00:38:40,380
these parents as the educated mother who

982
00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:41,550
thinks she knows better than the

983
00:38:46,190 --> 00:38:43,170
overwhelming majority of the world's

984
00:38:47,810 --> 00:38:46,200
scientists and doctors and as you can

985
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:47,820
imagine she received some pretty nasty

986
00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:51,330
letters the following day she also said

987
00:38:56,030 --> 00:38:54,210
this around the world resistance to

988
00:38:59,390 --> 00:38:56,040
vaccination is strongest amongst the

989
00:39:01,970 --> 00:38:59,400
affluent and educated these statements

990
00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:01,980
are supported by arthur allen author of

991
00:39:06,890 --> 00:39:03,570
the book vaccine a history of

992
00:39:08,930 --> 00:39:06,900
immunization he observed that living in

993
00:39:11,470 --> 00:39:08,940
a place with a high percentage of PhDs

994
00:39:15,170 --> 00:39:11,480
is a risk factor for whooping cough

995
00:39:17,300 --> 00:39:15,180
skating stuff indeed but in a case of

996
00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:17,310
backward logic the anti vectors have

997
00:39:22,670 --> 00:39:19,170
actually claimed this for themselves

998
00:39:24,890 --> 00:39:22,680
loudly proclaiming parents continue to

999
00:39:27,410 --> 00:39:24,900
be accused of being ignorant uncaring

1000
00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:27,420
and stupid for refusing vaccines which

1001
00:39:31,370 --> 00:39:29,130
the medical community claim will keep

1002
00:39:34,220 --> 00:39:31,380
their children healthy when the truth is

1003
00:39:38,060 --> 00:39:34,230
older highly educated parents form the

1004
00:39:39,470 --> 00:39:38,070
basis of the anti immunization Lobby not

1005
00:39:41,870 --> 00:39:39,480
something to be proud of I would have

1006
00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:41,880
thought however one wonders if these are

1007
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:43,410
the parents glued to morning television

1008
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:46,410
where the likes of merrill dory from the

1009
00:39:50,240 --> 00:39:48,210
australian vaccination network can

1010
00:39:53,750 --> 00:39:50,250
regularly be seen spouting her

1011
00:39:55,550 --> 00:39:53,760
misinformed anti-vaccine on sense yes

1012
00:39:57,440 --> 00:39:55,560
people we have our own version of Jenny

1013
00:40:00,589 --> 00:39:57,450
McCarthy in Australia we are not

1014
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:00,599
mune now the innocuous Lee titled

1015
00:40:05,660 --> 00:40:03,210
Australian vaccination network fronted

1016
00:40:08,329 --> 00:40:05,670
by the screeching Merrill dory go by the

1017
00:40:10,730 --> 00:40:08,339
catchphrase love them protects them

1018
00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:10,740
never injects them she is regularly

1019
00:40:15,500 --> 00:40:12,570
given a platform on morning television

1020
00:40:18,290 --> 00:40:15,510
shows in Australia such as mornings with

1021
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:18,300
kerri-anne Kennerley in defense of

1022
00:40:22,130 --> 00:40:20,010
kerri-anne Kennerley they usually have a

1023
00:40:25,579 --> 00:40:22,140
representative from the sensible side in

1024
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:25,589
this case dr. penny Adams however just

1025
00:40:30,020 --> 00:40:27,810
like the overseas breeds Meryl is not

1026
00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:30,030
shy about exposing her ignorance to a

1027
00:40:35,089 --> 00:40:33,210
national audience well not what's wrong

1028
00:40:36,620 --> 00:40:35,099
with vaccinator well I don't think

1029
00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:36,630
there's anything wrong with the idea of

1030
00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:38,490
vaccinations but unfortunately there

1031
00:40:42,170 --> 00:40:40,170
isn't a whole lot of science to back it

1032
00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:42,180
up dr. penny said that if we get enough

1033
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:44,130
people vaccinated will see the disease's

1034
00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:47,010
wiped out on the Guardian and I don't

1035
00:40:50,720 --> 00:40:48,810
want to seem to interrupt you say not

1036
00:40:53,150 --> 00:40:50,730
enough science to back it up I'm a late

1037
00:40:56,359 --> 00:40:53,160
person I do know this information says

1038
00:40:58,490 --> 00:40:56,369
we've been polio-free since 2000 that to

1039
00:41:02,050 --> 00:40:58,500
me says there's a bit of science that

1040
00:41:04,550 --> 00:41:02,060
polio vaccinations were need i say more

1041
00:41:06,470 --> 00:41:04,560
however as a further demonstration of

1042
00:41:08,180 --> 00:41:06,480
how little the australian vaccination

1043
00:41:10,430 --> 00:41:08,190
net won't understand about science and

1044
00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:10,440
medicine i will use an article written

1045
00:41:17,660 --> 00:41:13,530
by them known as 10 reasons why not to

1046
00:41:20,990 --> 00:41:17,670
vaccinate reason one vaccines have never

1047
00:41:22,940 --> 00:41:21,000
been tested this statement encompasses

1048
00:41:24,650 --> 00:41:22,950
the full gamut of how little the

1049
00:41:26,630 --> 00:41:24,660
Australian vaccination network know

1050
00:41:29,359 --> 00:41:26,640
about how the drug development process

1051
00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:29,369
works I won't bore you with the details

1052
00:41:33,530 --> 00:41:31,650
of this today but I will tell you it

1053
00:41:35,210 --> 00:41:33,540
takes millions of dollars around ten

1054
00:41:37,849 --> 00:41:35,220
years and at least four phases of

1055
00:41:40,670 --> 00:41:37,859
testing which continues even after the

1056
00:41:42,890 --> 00:41:40,680
drug is released evidence that this

1057
00:41:45,589 --> 00:41:42,900
process works can be found in the case

1058
00:41:48,290 --> 00:41:45,599
of a vaccine for the rotavirus called

1059
00:41:53,720 --> 00:41:48,300
rotor shield which was released in the

1060
00:41:56,240 --> 00:41:53,730
US in 1998 in pre-licensure trials the

1061
00:41:58,250 --> 00:41:56,250
vaccine appeared to be safe but in post

1062
00:42:00,010 --> 00:41:58,260
licensure surveillance it was associated

1063
00:42:03,140 --> 00:42:00,020
with an increased risk of

1064
00:42:05,150 --> 00:42:03,150
intussusception which is a rare form of

1065
00:42:07,430 --> 00:42:05,160
bowel obstruction occurring in infants

1066
00:42:09,859 --> 00:42:07,440
as soon as this problem was discovered

1067
00:42:10,970 --> 00:42:09,869
the vaccine was withdrawn from the

1068
00:42:12,710 --> 00:42:10,980
market

1069
00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:12,720
rotor shield was never released in

1070
00:42:22,250 --> 00:42:18,570
australia number two vaccines contain

1071
00:42:24,170 --> 00:42:22,260
toxic additives and heavy metals well

1072
00:42:26,180 --> 00:42:24,180
here the avn are of course scare

1073
00:42:28,250 --> 00:42:26,190
mongering with thimerosal which is the

1074
00:42:30,470 --> 00:42:28,260
mercury based preservative that has been

1075
00:42:33,260 --> 00:42:30,480
used in very small amounts in some

1076
00:42:36,620 --> 00:42:33,270
vaccines since the 1930s to prevent

1077
00:42:38,690 --> 00:42:36,630
bacterial and fungal contamination but

1078
00:42:41,180 --> 00:42:38,700
there is no evidence that thimerosal has

1079
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:41,190
caused any health problems except

1080
00:42:46,130 --> 00:42:43,530
perhaps minor reactions such as redness

1081
00:42:48,260 --> 00:42:46,140
at the injection site in any case

1082
00:42:51,020 --> 00:42:48,270
thimerosal was removed from childhood

1083
00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:51,030
vaccines as a precaution in two thousand

1084
00:42:56,690 --> 00:42:53,970
and some vaccines such as pneumococcal

1085
00:42:58,670 --> 00:42:56,700
vaccines the MMR and other live

1086
00:43:01,880 --> 00:42:58,680
attenuated viral vaccines never

1087
00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:01,890
contained thimerosal whilst there are

1088
00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:04,170
certain vaccines for adults in Australia

1089
00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:06,690
that still contain thimerosal the levels

1090
00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:09,450
are extremely low much lower than the

1091
00:43:15,620 --> 00:43:11,850
level of exposure we obtain to mercury

1092
00:43:17,599 --> 00:43:15,630
in our daily lives I don't have the time

1093
00:43:19,580 --> 00:43:17,609
or energy to discuss all the claims made

1094
00:43:22,190 --> 00:43:19,590
by the Australian vaccination network in

1095
00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:22,200
this article except to say that they are

1096
00:43:26,620 --> 00:43:24,570
full of accusations and conspiracies we

1097
00:43:29,359 --> 00:43:26,630
have come to expect from these people

1098
00:43:31,190 --> 00:43:29,369
these include such gems as the

1099
00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:31,200
pharmaceutical companies have paid for

1100
00:43:35,390 --> 00:43:32,850
all the vaccine studies to date

1101
00:43:38,420 --> 00:43:35,400
therefore they are flawed and then

1102
00:43:40,430 --> 00:43:38,430
there's this extraordinary claim some

1103
00:43:43,490 --> 00:43:40,440
childhood illnesses have beneficial

1104
00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:43,500
aspects and therefore prevention may not

1105
00:43:48,980 --> 00:43:45,690
necessarily be in the interests of the

1106
00:43:51,590 --> 00:43:48,990
child you really think so Merrill dory

1107
00:43:54,200 --> 00:43:51,600
well why don't we use one example of a

1108
00:43:56,540 --> 00:43:54,210
childhood illness whooping cough which

1109
00:43:57,740 --> 00:43:56,550
can be vaccinated for and look at

1110
00:44:00,830 --> 00:43:57,750
whether it's in the interest of the

1111
00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:00,840
child to contract it I choose whooping

1112
00:44:05,780 --> 00:44:02,490
cough since Australia is currently

1113
00:44:09,170 --> 00:44:05,790
experiencing an epidemic now according

1114
00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:09,180
to some reports more than 8,300 cases

1115
00:44:15,020 --> 00:44:11,130
were reported in New South Wales last

1116
00:44:17,480 --> 00:44:15,030
year in October 2008 40 cases were

1117
00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:17,490
reported from the same school and the

1118
00:44:21,170 --> 00:44:19,050
Health Service said that most of these

1119
00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:21,180
cases were in children who had not been

1120
00:44:27,340 --> 00:44:24,570
immunized whooping cough is caused by

1121
00:44:29,720 --> 00:44:27,350
the bacterium bordetella pertussis

1122
00:44:32,930 --> 00:44:29,730
babies are vaccinated against whooping

1123
00:44:35,349 --> 00:44:32,940
cough at two months then boosted at four

1124
00:44:37,910 --> 00:44:35,359
months six months and four years a

1125
00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:37,920
booster dose is also recommended for

1126
00:44:41,540 --> 00:44:39,930
adolescents and certain adults such as

1127
00:44:44,260 --> 00:44:41,550
healthcare workers and those who work

1128
00:44:46,609 --> 00:44:44,270
with young babies in young children

1129
00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:46,619
whooping cough is particularly serious

1130
00:44:52,580 --> 00:44:49,410
where one in every 200 babies who can

1131
00:44:54,470 --> 00:44:52,590
track the infection will die some can

1132
00:44:57,710 --> 00:44:54,480
even crack their ribs through violent

1133
00:44:59,780 --> 00:44:57,720
coughing attacks a recent report about

1134
00:45:02,599 --> 00:44:59,790
the epidemic cited the story of a

1135
00:45:05,870 --> 00:45:02,609
14-week old girl who has had whooping

1136
00:45:07,820 --> 00:45:05,880
cough since he was two weeks old her

1137
00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:07,830
terrified mother said she had turned

1138
00:45:13,940 --> 00:45:10,050
blue several times during coughing fits

1139
00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:13,950
as she gasped for air whooping cough is

1140
00:45:18,530 --> 00:45:15,690
not a disease you want to mess with it

1141
00:45:20,660 --> 00:45:18,540
causes considerable morbidity the

1142
00:45:22,310 --> 00:45:20,670
disease is particularly serious in small

1143
00:45:24,890 --> 00:45:22,320
children as it can cause them to stop

1144
00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:24,900
breathing the whoop which is not always

1145
00:45:28,810 --> 00:45:27,330
obvious is due to a deep breath at the

1146
00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:28,820
end of a bout of coughing and vomiting

1147
00:45:34,190 --> 00:45:32,130
after coughing is common severe

1148
00:45:36,170 --> 00:45:34,200
complications which occur almost

1149
00:45:39,830 --> 00:45:36,180
exclusively and unvaccinated people

1150
00:45:41,750 --> 00:45:39,840
include seizures and pneumonia in babies

1151
00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:41,760
under six months of age the symptoms can

1152
00:45:47,330 --> 00:45:43,530
be severe or life-threatening and

1153
00:45:49,010 --> 00:45:47,340
include hemorrhage apnea which is when

1154
00:45:52,070 --> 00:45:49,020
you stop breathing for short or long

1155
00:45:54,820 --> 00:45:52,080
periods of time pneumonia inflammation

1156
00:45:58,060 --> 00:45:54,830
of the brain convulsions and coma

1157
00:46:00,200 --> 00:45:58,070
permanent brain damage and death

1158
00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:00,210
according to health officials in New

1159
00:46:04,280 --> 00:46:02,490
South Wales the recent epidemic of

1160
00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:04,290
whooping cough is likely a result of a

1161
00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:07,410
reduction in vaccination the north coast

1162
00:46:12,349 --> 00:46:09,090
Area Health Service Director of Public

1163
00:46:14,420 --> 00:46:12,359
Health Paul corbin said communities with

1164
00:46:16,580 --> 00:46:14,430
low vaccination rates have had more than

1165
00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:16,590
eight times the rate of disease seen in

1166
00:46:21,530 --> 00:46:18,810
those areas with the highest vaccination

1167
00:46:23,510 --> 00:46:21,540
rates while according to the Australian

1168
00:46:25,070 --> 00:46:23,520
vaccination Network you don't need to

1169
00:46:27,290 --> 00:46:25,080
vaccinate against whooping cough

1170
00:46:30,980 --> 00:46:27,300
sometimes it's better for kids to just

1171
00:46:33,170 --> 00:46:30,990
catch it and although this organization

1172
00:46:35,390 --> 00:46:33,180
is relatively small they do have a lot

1173
00:46:36,980 --> 00:46:35,400
of influence and are also well organized

1174
00:46:39,060 --> 00:46:36,990
and very active

1175
00:46:41,310 --> 00:46:39,070
Australian listeners may remember the

1176
00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:41,320
case of parents who fled hospital and

1177
00:46:46,740 --> 00:46:43,690
the authorities with their newborn boy

1178
00:46:50,130 --> 00:46:46,750
in August 2008 to avoid having to have

1179
00:46:52,050 --> 00:46:50,140
him vaccinated for hepatitis B the sad

1180
00:46:54,720 --> 00:46:52,060
thing was the mother was hepatitis B

1181
00:46:57,030 --> 00:46:54,730
positive herself and although it is not

1182
00:46:59,610 --> 00:46:57,040
compulsory to be vaccinated in Australia

1183
00:47:01,470 --> 00:46:59,620
it is health department policy that

1184
00:47:04,320 --> 00:47:01,480
children born of hepatitis B positive

1185
00:47:06,360 --> 00:47:04,330
mothers are offered immunoglobulin for

1186
00:47:08,730 --> 00:47:06,370
the child within 12 hours of birth and

1187
00:47:12,720 --> 00:47:08,740
four doses of the vaccine over six

1188
00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:12,730
months in a tragic tale of ignorance the

1189
00:47:16,980 --> 00:47:14,290
mother told reporters that the couple

1190
00:47:18,690 --> 00:47:16,990
believed aluminium in the vaccine could

1191
00:47:22,110 --> 00:47:18,700
cause him more damage than the child

1192
00:47:24,240 --> 00:47:22,120
contracting hepatitis B and of course

1193
00:47:26,790 --> 00:47:24,250
the father is a member of the Australian

1194
00:47:31,230 --> 00:47:26,800
vaccination network by which the couple

1195
00:47:33,510 --> 00:47:31,240
are now touted as heroes Australia also

1196
00:47:35,580 --> 00:47:33,520
has the usual suspects such as the

1197
00:47:37,860 --> 00:47:35,590
chiropractors who don't proclaim it from

1198
00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:37,870
the rooftops but upon questioning will

1199
00:47:43,470 --> 00:47:40,570
tell you not to vaccinate they will also

1200
00:47:45,510 --> 00:47:43,480
follow the MMR autism line and I had one

1201
00:47:48,960 --> 00:47:45,520
tell me this at a recent mother's babies

1202
00:47:50,790 --> 00:47:48,970
and pregnancy Expo and of course we

1203
00:47:53,010 --> 00:47:50,800
can't forget the despicable homeopaths

1204
00:47:54,630 --> 00:47:53,020
who will also tell you on the sly that

1205
00:47:57,390 --> 00:47:54,640
you can use homeopathy to vaccinate your

1206
00:48:00,630 --> 00:47:57,400
kids I won't discuss this further today

1207
00:48:05,160 --> 00:48:00,640
because a it makes me too angry and B it

1208
00:48:06,510 --> 00:48:05,170
requires its own show entirely for more

1209
00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:06,520
information about the myths and

1210
00:48:11,460 --> 00:48:09,130
realities of vaccination the australian

1211
00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:11,470
government publishes a brochure called

1212
00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:13,890
vaccination myths and realities

1213
00:48:18,450 --> 00:48:15,970
responding to arguments against

1214
00:48:20,520 --> 00:48:18,460
immunisation this is a thoroughly

1215
00:48:22,500 --> 00:48:20,530
researched and easy-to-read resource

1216
00:48:26,310 --> 00:48:22,510
which addresses fact and fiction about

1217
00:48:27,660 --> 00:48:26,320
immunization it's also useful even if

1218
00:48:29,640 --> 00:48:27,670
you are not in Australia and

1219
00:48:31,140 --> 00:48:29,650
particularly good for passing the way of

1220
00:48:32,850 --> 00:48:31,150
anyone you know who might have some

1221
00:48:36,630 --> 00:48:32,860
dodgy ideas about the merits of

1222
00:48:38,430 --> 00:48:36,640
vaccination for further reading and the

1223
00:48:40,470 --> 00:48:38,440
references for this story head to my

1224
00:48:43,140 --> 00:48:40,480
blog which is linked from skeptic zone

1225
00:48:45,180 --> 00:48:43,150
TV and thank you to everyone who has

1226
00:48:47,580 --> 00:48:45,190
been emailing me and leaving comments on

1227
00:48:50,370 --> 00:48:47,590
the blog also don't forget I have

1228
00:48:52,890 --> 00:48:50,380
another blog at skeptics book calm

1229
00:49:04,150 --> 00:48:52,900
and until next time this has been dr.

1230
00:49:08,780 --> 00:49:06,950
breaking news science was arrested

1231
00:49:10,790 --> 00:49:08,790
yesterday for exposing himself in public

1232
00:49:13,309 --> 00:49:10,800
on a website called smart acts calm

1233
00:49:15,319 --> 00:49:13,319
science denied any wrongdoing in a

1234
00:49:18,520 --> 00:49:15,329
statement smart acts calm said they

1235
00:49:25,790 --> 00:49:18,530
would do it again and again and again

1236
00:49:34,880 --> 00:49:25,800
smart acts calm join us now for drinking

1237
00:49:38,390 --> 00:49:36,620
good evening good afternoon or good

1238
00:49:41,779 --> 00:49:38,400
morning as James Randi would say and

1239
00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:41,789
welcome to the think tank cheers cheers

1240
00:49:48,970 --> 00:49:46,490
Cheers hmm

1241
00:49:52,390 --> 00:49:48,980
oh that's better nice cheap champagne

1242
00:49:56,740 --> 00:49:52,400
I'm joined tonight by Iran's they give

1243
00:49:58,630 --> 00:49:56,750
good anger on hello dr. rachy dr. Rachel

1244
00:50:00,609 --> 00:49:58,640
Dunlop hi Richard how are you I'm fine

1245
00:50:03,430 --> 00:50:00,619
thank you for your report earlier in the

1246
00:50:07,240 --> 00:50:03,440
show good as ever and some guy we found

1247
00:50:09,910 --> 00:50:07,250
on the street Dave the happy singer okay

1248
00:50:12,280 --> 00:50:09,920
welcome back thank you thank you did you

1249
00:50:14,230 --> 00:50:12,290
miss me yeah we always we always with to

1250
00:50:16,210 --> 00:50:14,240
you we always miss you Dave the happy

1251
00:50:18,460 --> 00:50:16,220
singer i'm going to start straight off i

1252
00:50:20,320 --> 00:50:18,470
am this think tank i want to give a big

1253
00:50:24,280 --> 00:50:20,330
shout out to my good friend Mario

1254
00:50:26,950 --> 00:50:24,290
otherwise known as muy ooh hi meri P I'm

1255
00:50:31,840 --> 00:50:26,960
le poop now she's involved with the new

1256
00:50:35,290 --> 00:50:31,850
site called smart XCOM and access in

1257
00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:35,300
chopping the tree acts smart x comma she

1258
00:50:40,660 --> 00:50:36,770
says it's the sort of the naughtiest

1259
00:50:42,130 --> 00:50:40,670
side of science well and I think Rachel

1260
00:50:44,220 --> 00:50:42,140
there's something on there to do well

1261
00:50:46,570 --> 00:50:44,230
there will be soon to do with breasts so

1262
00:50:48,640 --> 00:50:46,580
I've heard a rumor about that when you

1263
00:50:49,930 --> 00:50:48,650
know i'm not sure what she is well she

1264
00:50:52,030 --> 00:50:49,940
has got some stuff up there already

1265
00:50:53,349 --> 00:50:52,040
about oscillating breasts but i don't

1266
00:50:54,609 --> 00:50:53,359
want to give anything away i'm not sure

1267
00:50:57,040 --> 00:50:54,619
what it's actually up there at this

1268
00:50:58,770 --> 00:50:57,050
point yeah oscillating brush yes yeah

1269
00:51:02,109 --> 00:50:58,780
it's like that if you think so awesome

1270
00:51:05,740 --> 00:51:02,119
no it's explaining physics three options

1271
00:51:08,650 --> 00:51:05,750
and i've seen i woulda diviners use all

1272
00:51:10,570 --> 00:51:08,660
sorts of things I really have are you

1273
00:51:13,480 --> 00:51:10,580
suggesting I could use something else i

1274
00:51:15,340 --> 00:51:13,490
have from wrong yeah well there's no i'm

1275
00:51:16,840 --> 00:51:15,350
rhyming this I realized there's an audio

1276
00:51:19,890 --> 00:51:16,850
based medium but I can't describe this

1277
00:51:23,080 --> 00:51:19,900
idea I've got other than and it kind of

1278
00:51:25,780 --> 00:51:23,090
mine I wish this was video now what are

1279
00:51:28,930 --> 00:51:25,790
also has invested well their breasts oh

1280
00:51:31,060 --> 00:51:28,940
really oh right the small tax is that

1281
00:51:32,920 --> 00:51:31,070
with annie varughese or without witness

1282
00:51:36,970 --> 00:51:32,930
the Americans to it with our Naidu yeah

1283
00:51:42,359 --> 00:51:36,980
it is I am A Wish would it this is rose

1284
00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:42,369
into the nest hey hey hey exhale com I

1285
00:51:52,510 --> 00:51:45,770
am so smart I am so smart estimate II I

1286
00:51:52,520 --> 00:51:58,839
hey yo que era just go on the silent

1287
00:52:04,490 --> 00:52:01,579
hexbug now folks with that with that

1288
00:52:08,420 --> 00:52:04,500
level of Murphy on this side of the this

1289
00:52:10,760 --> 00:52:08,430
is a matter for math Murph visit smart

1290
00:52:14,270 --> 00:52:10,770
acts and doctor with a nice mark acts

1291
00:52:17,059 --> 00:52:14,280
calm and find out more because muy poo

1292
00:52:19,640 --> 00:52:17,069
has done a tremendous amount of very

1293
00:52:21,500 --> 00:52:19,650
funny science videos and she's just

1294
00:52:23,900 --> 00:52:21,510
relaunched this website as well as she

1295
00:52:26,410 --> 00:52:23,910
heard she is right you really really

1296
00:52:29,480 --> 00:52:26,420
worth a look its release visit smart

1297
00:52:31,550 --> 00:52:29,490
XCOM so Rachel what do you have first

1298
00:52:34,670 --> 00:52:31,560
night oh I've got a story about am

1299
00:52:37,640 --> 00:52:34,680
driver in Brisbane who was accused of

1300
00:52:39,410 --> 00:52:37,650
drink-driving recently this story

1301
00:52:42,559 --> 00:52:39,420
appeared in the brisbane courier-mail on

1302
00:52:44,450 --> 00:52:42,569
the eighteenth of februari and it was a

1303
00:52:48,079 --> 00:52:44,460
case of a gentleman who was picked up

1304
00:52:51,559 --> 00:52:48,089
for drink driving he was found by police

1305
00:52:55,160 --> 00:52:51,569
in his car wearing only his underpants

1306
00:52:56,780 --> 00:52:55,170
oh and when Polly's tapped on his window

1307
00:52:59,480 --> 00:52:56,790
and woke him up he said he had no

1308
00:53:01,280 --> 00:52:59,490
recollection of what happened but his

1309
00:53:03,559 --> 00:53:01,290
blood alcohol reading was three times

1310
00:53:06,349 --> 00:53:03,569
the legal limit it was point one seven

1311
00:53:11,000 --> 00:53:06,359
six and in Australia the legal limit is

1312
00:53:13,010 --> 00:53:11,010
point zero five and even when he went to

1313
00:53:15,140 --> 00:53:13,020
court he claims that he had had one

1314
00:53:17,059 --> 00:53:15,150
glass of wine and then took to

1315
00:53:21,380 --> 00:53:17,069
homeopathic sleeping tablets an hour

1316
00:53:24,079 --> 00:53:21,390
later and his last memory is waking up

1317
00:53:26,279 --> 00:53:24,089
when ambulance officers were tapping on

1318
00:53:28,349 --> 00:53:26,289
the window of his car

1319
00:53:29,909 --> 00:53:28,359
so he went to court and told the judge

1320
00:53:33,929 --> 00:53:29,919
that it must have been the homeopathic

1321
00:53:36,870 --> 00:53:33,939
sleeping tablets I'm not so sure about

1322
00:53:38,819 --> 00:53:36,880
that I mean allegedly he had one glass

1323
00:53:41,880 --> 00:53:38,829
of wine I suspect he may have had a few

1324
00:53:43,409 --> 00:53:41,890
more glasses than one really yeah well

1325
00:53:44,759 --> 00:53:43,419
did you feel fortunate to live in a

1326
00:53:47,640 --> 00:53:44,769
country whether by where the judge

1327
00:53:48,929 --> 00:53:47,650
doesn't buy clean like that well it's

1328
00:53:52,109 --> 00:53:48,939
funny you should mention that Iran

1329
00:53:53,429 --> 00:53:52,119
because the judge fined him a thousand

1330
00:53:55,739 --> 00:53:53,439
dollars and disqualified him from

1331
00:53:57,659 --> 00:53:55,749
driving for nine months yes but it was a

1332
00:54:00,449 --> 00:53:57,669
homeopathic fine so he'd be out next

1333
00:54:02,249 --> 00:54:00,459
week or doing it well no it wasn't a

1334
00:54:04,919 --> 00:54:02,259
homeopathic fine but you you're right

1335
00:54:06,929 --> 00:54:04,929
but I guess if it was a homeopathic

1336
00:54:10,739 --> 00:54:06,939
glass of wine maybe it was super super

1337
00:54:12,569 --> 00:54:10,749
strong for super super weak which meant

1338
00:54:14,370 --> 00:54:12,579
it was super super exactly yeah that's

1339
00:54:16,709 --> 00:54:14,380
what I mean so it was super super dilute

1340
00:54:19,319 --> 00:54:16,719
therefore it was very strong so that's

1341
00:54:20,849 --> 00:54:19,329
probably why one glass resulted in him

1342
00:54:24,989 --> 00:54:20,859
being three times over the legal limit

1343
00:54:27,659 --> 00:54:24,999
and interestingly enough he is also a

1344
00:54:30,359 --> 00:54:27,669
national ballroom dancer champion well

1345
00:54:32,669 --> 00:54:30,369
in fact just as an aside that may have

1346
00:54:34,469 --> 00:54:32,679
been of interest to some people and to

1347
00:54:37,529 --> 00:54:34,479
all the homeopaths out there we don't

1348
00:54:38,969 --> 00:54:37,539
buy it for a second how many people

1349
00:54:40,859 --> 00:54:38,979
though that a ballroom dancers sit

1350
00:54:42,569 --> 00:54:40,869
around drinking in their underpants what

1351
00:54:44,549 --> 00:54:42,579
do you think he may be so well street

1352
00:54:47,699 --> 00:54:44,559
for he always drink in my mouth not my

1353
00:54:49,079 --> 00:54:47,709
own I was actually wondering how

1354
00:54:51,120 --> 00:54:49,089
everybody said how many people I was

1355
00:54:54,649 --> 00:54:51,130
thinking how many people who are only a

1356
00:54:58,279 --> 00:54:54,659
parent's actually listening to this job

1357
00:55:00,630 --> 00:54:58,289
22 yeah well how many ballroom dances

1358
00:55:03,329 --> 00:55:00,640
drank in their underpants anyway he was

1359
00:55:04,829 --> 00:55:03,339
he was charged so the judge didn't as

1360
00:55:06,029 --> 00:55:04,839
you mentioned around didn't buy the fact

1361
00:55:07,570 --> 00:55:06,039
that it was a homeopathic sleeping

1362
00:55:09,230 --> 00:55:07,580
tablet

1363
00:55:11,090 --> 00:55:09,240
Richard you know something about

1364
00:55:12,890 --> 00:55:11,100
homeopathic sleeping tablets don't you I

1365
00:55:16,310 --> 00:55:12,900
believe you've been involved in an

1366
00:55:18,470 --> 00:55:16,320
incident or a stunt way you attempted to

1367
00:55:22,160 --> 00:55:18,480
overdose on homeopath yeah that was the

1368
00:55:24,770 --> 00:55:22,170
the 2004 Australian skeptics convention

1369
00:55:27,680 --> 00:55:24,780
here in Sydney and myself in a group of

1370
00:55:29,900 --> 00:55:27,690
skeptics consumed handfuls of

1371
00:55:32,420 --> 00:55:29,910
homeopathic sleeping tablets in front of

1372
00:55:34,460 --> 00:55:32,430
a live audience and what happened

1373
00:55:36,590 --> 00:55:34,470
Richard Ellis like I haven't slept since

1374
00:55:38,180 --> 00:55:36,600
which is a bit weird but it's actually

1375
00:55:40,490 --> 00:55:38,190
not weird at all because if you think of

1376
00:55:42,620 --> 00:55:40,500
it the less commute Butler the less time

1377
00:55:46,670 --> 00:55:42,630
your pathak tablets you take the more

1378
00:55:49,420 --> 00:55:46,680
potent of hot yoga is now James Randi

1379
00:55:51,860 --> 00:55:49,430
does this a lot here he'll quaff

1380
00:55:53,600 --> 00:55:51,870
handfuls of homeopathic sleeping tablets

1381
00:55:56,390 --> 00:55:53,610
yeah there's your sugar pill so really

1382
00:55:58,220 --> 00:55:56,400
doesn't matter doesn't give you any any

1383
00:56:00,980 --> 00:55:58,230
response to you at least get a sugar

1384
00:56:02,870 --> 00:56:00,990
high or nothing nothing at all because

1385
00:56:04,820 --> 00:56:02,880
they're tiny they're miniscule these

1386
00:56:07,280 --> 00:56:04,830
tablets and they Chuck they cost a

1387
00:56:08,660 --> 00:56:07,290
fortune for a packet of them I mean we

1388
00:56:10,670 --> 00:56:08,670
aren't laid a couple of hundred dollars

1389
00:56:12,980 --> 00:56:10,680
to get enough so ever the four or five

1390
00:56:14,780 --> 00:56:12,990
of us or six or whatever it was at the

1391
00:56:16,730 --> 00:56:14,790
front of the audience could all have a

1392
00:56:20,470 --> 00:56:16,740
handful and go computing appointment

1393
00:56:23,720 --> 00:56:20,480
with nominal long and eat them all and

1394
00:56:25,520 --> 00:56:23,730
no it was it was a funny stunt but it

1395
00:56:28,370 --> 00:56:25,530
was to make a serious point but this the

1396
00:56:31,849 --> 00:56:28,380
public are being sold

1397
00:56:37,339 --> 00:56:31,859
what's the word chance a pious evos yeah

1398
00:56:40,519 --> 00:56:37,349
yeah well the next wait let me um talk

1399
00:56:42,829 --> 00:56:40,529
about ghosts Oh ghosts and what's the

1400
00:56:45,170 --> 00:56:42,839
ghost what's a ghost that's a good

1401
00:56:46,430 --> 00:56:45,180
question I don't know neither do i knew

1402
00:56:48,140 --> 00:56:46,440
you bring what asking people yeah what's

1403
00:56:49,789 --> 00:56:48,150
ago somebody I was talking to somebody

1404
00:56:51,499 --> 00:56:49,799
of you the other day on the internet and

1405
00:56:53,509 --> 00:56:51,509
we were talking about ghosts this is a

1406
00:56:55,519 --> 00:56:53,519
ghost or spirit and God is the great

1407
00:57:01,180 --> 00:56:55,529
disabilities of all and as is no single

1408
00:57:06,200 --> 00:57:03,920
that's a funny joke from Dave the happy

1409
00:57:10,130 --> 00:57:06,210
singer you can come out when I oh hey

1410
00:57:12,019 --> 00:57:10,140
wait I weren't all right in Darby in

1411
00:57:18,109 --> 00:57:12,029
England they've had some problems with a

1412
00:57:19,819 --> 00:57:18,119
ghost and this is reported today I know

1413
00:57:22,069 --> 00:57:19,829
sorry I big eponymous recorded in

1414
00:57:23,660 --> 00:57:22,079
reported in January so it's slightly old

1415
00:57:26,120 --> 00:57:23,670
maid but ghosts can hang around for a

1416
00:57:28,819 --> 00:57:26,130
long time surgical spirit spooks

1417
00:57:30,710 --> 00:57:28,829
hospital staff at the state of the art

1418
00:57:32,960 --> 00:57:30,720
on a state of stuff at a

1419
00:57:35,210 --> 00:57:32,970
state-of-the-art Hospital have called in

1420
00:57:37,609 --> 00:57:35,220
a chaplain after being spooked by a

1421
00:57:40,099 --> 00:57:37,619
ghost but have denied claims there are

1422
00:57:43,540 --> 00:57:40,109
plans to carry out an exorcism this is

1423
00:57:47,550 --> 00:57:43,550
that they endure be

1424
00:57:50,170 --> 00:57:47,560
in the UK Darby's new Royal Hospital

1425
00:57:53,020 --> 00:57:50,180
some people working they have reported

1426
00:57:54,610 --> 00:57:53,030
being scared by a ghost and there are

1427
00:57:56,980 --> 00:57:54,620
reports that they were calling in a

1428
00:58:01,150 --> 00:57:56,990
chaplain to maybe perform an exorcism

1429
00:58:03,640 --> 00:58:01,160
which is odd apparently this hospital

1430
00:58:05,560 --> 00:58:03,650
has been built on what was once a Roman

1431
00:58:08,770 --> 00:58:05,570
Road and the speculation that the ghost

1432
00:58:11,650 --> 00:58:08,780
is a Roman soldier has anyone actually

1433
00:58:13,270 --> 00:58:11,660
seen the ghost do they have vision of it

1434
00:58:16,630 --> 00:58:13,280
is that why they call it a Roman soldier

1435
00:58:19,150 --> 00:58:16,640
well that's a very good question but

1436
00:58:24,370 --> 00:58:19,160
apparently there are reports of workers

1437
00:58:27,280 --> 00:58:24,380
there being spooked haha spook pie

1438
00:58:30,240 --> 00:58:27,290
apparitions or a ghost and the quote

1439
00:58:34,510 --> 00:58:30,250
here is very strange it said experts

1440
00:58:37,840 --> 00:58:34,520
said the surgical spirit could be at the

1441
00:58:40,240 --> 00:58:37,850
ghost of a Roman soldier expert now

1442
00:58:42,700 --> 00:58:40,250
experts well experts Richard that means

1443
00:58:44,770 --> 00:58:42,710
they know everything doesn't it they're

1444
00:58:47,950 --> 00:58:44,780
not specific about what experts are they

1445
00:58:52,380 --> 00:58:47,960
know stacks books ghost expert I'm sorry

1446
00:58:55,870 --> 00:58:52,390
go with them iam it from treatment and

1447
00:58:58,720 --> 00:58:55,880
now the senior manager Debbie Butler as

1448
00:59:01,090 --> 00:58:58,730
written I'm not sure how many of you are

1449
00:59:03,250 --> 00:59:01,100
aware that some members of our staff

1450
00:59:05,230 --> 00:59:03,260
have reported seeing a ghost I'm taking

1451
00:59:08,860 --> 00:59:05,240
it seriously as last thing I want you

1452
00:59:11,860 --> 00:59:08,870
start feeling uneasy at work last thing

1453
00:59:14,020 --> 00:59:11,870
you want I'm just wondering about why

1454
00:59:16,330 --> 00:59:14,030
chaplain I mean if you have

1455
00:59:18,880 --> 00:59:16,340
ghosts than youthful Dementors or

1456
00:59:20,890 --> 00:59:18,890
something no Dementors you mean from

1457
00:59:24,840 --> 00:59:20,900
have something strange in your

1458
00:59:33,070 --> 00:59:24,850
neighborhood who you're gonna call the

1459
00:59:35,860 --> 00:59:33,080
dog catching it goes no seriously why a

1460
00:59:37,720 --> 00:59:35,870
chaplain yeah good question good night

1461
00:59:39,550 --> 00:59:37,730
don't do that it was a Roman go that's

1462
00:59:42,970 --> 00:59:39,560
like Catholic chaplain you doing

1463
00:59:44,440 --> 00:59:42,980
exorcism Darby surely I mean the Darby

1464
00:59:46,780 --> 00:59:44,450
the burnt all the Catholics a long time

1465
00:59:49,450 --> 00:59:46,790
ago why not call this relational local

1466
00:59:52,930 --> 00:59:49,460
Krishna's Old English well it's a Roman

1467
00:59:54,910 --> 00:59:52,940
ghost so we need to know what it is late

1468
00:59:56,980 --> 00:59:54,920
cry Constantine converted the Roman

1469
00:59:59,230 --> 00:59:56,990
Empire to Christianity have to call it

1470
01:00:02,650 --> 00:59:59,240
well it does say in that article 1920s

1471
01:00:07,300 --> 01:00:02,660
doesn't come or weeks because I wonder

1472
01:00:09,160 --> 01:00:07,310
was that 480 yeah something like that so

1473
01:00:10,750 --> 01:00:09,170
after that then a chaplain but if it's

1474
01:00:12,160 --> 01:00:10,760
from before then then you're gonna have

1475
01:00:13,840 --> 01:00:12,170
to get somebody who knows about but do

1476
01:00:15,550 --> 01:00:13,850
you have to be that specific about guys

1477
01:00:17,140 --> 01:00:15,560
do you have to know what era they came

1478
01:00:18,460 --> 01:00:17,150
from and therefore allows you to make a

1479
01:00:19,900 --> 01:00:18,470
right language doesn't it you're gonna

1480
01:00:21,670 --> 01:00:19,910
cast them out you know you need to know

1481
01:00:25,720 --> 01:00:21,680
so you just went along being English

1482
01:00:29,350 --> 01:00:25,730
done you know ghosts yeah we mean

1483
01:00:32,730 --> 01:00:29,360
embarrassingly I think I mean if the if

1484
01:00:35,020 --> 01:00:32,740
the priest came in and said ghost ghost

1485
01:00:36,940 --> 01:00:35,030
depart this world blah blah blah and the

1486
01:00:38,530 --> 01:00:36,950
ghost said back in Latin Sorry mate

1487
01:00:40,150 --> 01:00:38,540
can't understand a bloody word you're

1488
01:00:41,860 --> 01:00:40,160
saying would be embarrassing Richard

1489
01:00:43,270 --> 01:00:41,870
that's not how it works oh it doesn't

1490
01:00:45,430 --> 01:00:43,280
work like that it doesn't work like that

1491
01:00:46,990 --> 01:00:45,440
you know don't you listen to what John

1492
01:00:48,970 --> 01:00:47,000
Edward says about things like that what

1493
01:00:51,100 --> 01:00:48,980
does he say he says he gets messages

1494
01:00:53,590 --> 01:00:51,110
that he can't always translate but he

1495
01:00:56,230 --> 01:00:53,600
can only understand pictures and images

1496
01:00:58,540 --> 01:00:56,240
and he has been asked directly in the

1497
01:01:00,100 --> 01:00:58,550
past what if the ghost speaks a

1498
01:01:02,920 --> 01:01:00,110
different language and he says but they

1499
01:01:04,990 --> 01:01:02,930
speak to me in images they don't speak a

1500
01:01:06,580 --> 01:01:05,000
language specifically

1501
01:01:08,650 --> 01:01:06,590
oh well that makes it all clear that i

1502
01:01:10,630 --> 01:01:08,660
wish' Lee thinking again this being from

1503
01:01:13,720 --> 01:01:10,640
Darby what if the ghosts answered with a

1504
01:01:15,280 --> 01:01:13,730
Mancunian accent that they could be

1505
01:01:16,570 --> 01:01:15,290
because that's quite hard to understand

1506
01:01:19,960 --> 01:01:16,580
it's a shame guess there's not much work

1507
01:01:21,520 --> 01:01:19,970
for Latin translators out there no not

1508
01:01:23,830 --> 01:01:21,530
not at least not interpreters you know

1509
01:01:25,270 --> 01:01:23,840
that's true but this may be as an itch

1510
01:01:28,930 --> 01:01:25,280
that could be opened up Dave what do you

1511
01:01:31,060 --> 01:01:28,940
think could be good yeah processes to

1512
01:01:34,300 --> 01:01:31,070
can translate ghosts now I would like to

1513
01:01:37,300 --> 01:01:34,310
put out a plea to listeners in the

1514
01:01:40,660 --> 01:01:37,310
sydney region if you know of or are

1515
01:01:43,450 --> 01:01:40,670
plagued by ghosts in your house or your

1516
01:01:45,340 --> 01:01:43,460
local area please contact us we'd love

1517
01:01:48,570 --> 01:01:45,350
to investigate wouldn't we're a job we

1518
01:01:51,310 --> 01:01:48,580
want everyone I wouldn't guide Liza

1519
01:01:53,950 --> 01:01:51,320
multiple languages week four languages

1520
01:01:56,530 --> 01:01:53,960
yeah we could maybe get a German goes

1521
01:01:59,080 --> 01:01:56,540
hey German goes to attach guys don't go

1522
01:02:01,240 --> 01:01:59,090
and she goes Dutch could be because the

1523
01:02:03,520 --> 01:02:01,250
Dutch have been here before cochlear

1524
01:02:07,110 --> 01:02:03,530
that's true yeah yeah well they couldn't

1525
01:02:11,530 --> 01:02:07,120
if you've got a dutch ghost that I want

1526
01:02:14,080 --> 01:02:11,540
I've come I'll bring my my pack my

1527
01:02:16,690 --> 01:02:14,090
backpack but with the Ghostbusters like

1528
01:02:19,660 --> 01:02:16,700
the one the back oh oh yeah well I want

1529
01:02:22,330 --> 01:02:19,670
to do this I wanna do you have the

1530
01:02:25,420 --> 01:02:22,340
overalls as well no i don't but i'll get

1531
01:02:27,910 --> 01:02:25,430
them it is a ghost of it i will so dress

1532
01:02:30,430 --> 01:02:27,920
up and i will go and sell out your ghost

1533
01:02:33,130 --> 01:02:30,440
problem don't german french english

1534
01:02:34,660 --> 01:02:33,140
whatever let's do this oh do you hear

1535
01:02:36,640 --> 01:02:34,670
about the superhero guys I think it'll

1536
01:02:40,720 --> 01:02:36,650
in Melbourne I don't think they're just

1537
01:02:42,640 --> 01:02:40,730
like fairly well-to-do Chuck's you set

1538
01:02:44,170 --> 01:02:42,650
up a league of super heroes and they

1539
01:02:45,760 --> 01:02:44,180
chipped in all their money and put the

1540
01:02:46,840 --> 01:02:45,770
TV out out i think it was in melbourne

1541
01:02:49,000 --> 01:02:46,850
you're gonna have to google as in fact

1542
01:02:50,830 --> 01:02:49,010
check it but they put out TV I've seen

1543
01:02:52,000 --> 01:02:50,840
any problems where your heroes if you've

1544
01:02:54,040 --> 01:02:52,010
got anything you want us to solve you

1545
01:02:55,480 --> 01:02:54,050
know ring this number and when they ring

1546
01:02:57,340 --> 01:02:55,490
up they would put their masks on and get

1547
01:02:59,200 --> 01:02:57,350
out in their car and go and like at cats

1548
01:03:01,030 --> 01:02:59,210
out of trees and actually superheroes

1549
01:03:02,530 --> 01:03:01,040
whatever you wanted them to do that come

1550
01:03:05,050 --> 01:03:02,540
and solve your problems like the goodies

1551
01:03:07,450 --> 01:03:05,060
doesn't think did it in real life how

1552
01:03:09,610 --> 01:03:07,460
also bought that's cool is that still

1553
01:03:10,140 --> 01:03:09,620
happening I'm not sure it was something

1554
01:03:11,730 --> 01:03:10,150
like sue

1555
01:03:13,769 --> 01:03:11,740
hero League of Australia or something if

1556
01:03:16,349 --> 01:03:13,779
you google at your father is Elastigirl

1557
01:03:19,289 --> 01:03:16,359
part of the story sorry is elastic girl

1558
01:03:22,859 --> 01:03:19,299
oh you need from the incredibles yes how

1559
01:03:24,809 --> 01:03:22,869
hot was she I mean when you're talking

1560
01:03:27,839 --> 01:03:24,819
cartoons asti she was almost Jessica

1561
01:03:31,069 --> 01:03:27,849
Rabbit well she was yeah well speaking

1562
01:03:33,750 --> 01:03:31,079
of ghosties can I talk about it a UFO

1563
01:03:36,690 --> 01:03:33,760
what is the wait wait wait wait speaking

1564
01:03:40,200 --> 01:03:36,700
of ghosties can I talk about a UFO and

1565
01:03:43,260 --> 01:03:40,210
you accuse me of bad segways no I that's

1566
01:03:45,359 --> 01:03:43,270
a Segway that connects UFOs and ghosties

1567
01:03:47,309 --> 01:03:45,369
go on well this is actually quite an old

1568
01:03:49,529 --> 01:03:47,319
story but it comes from also from

1569
01:03:51,630 --> 01:03:49,539
England from Lincolnshire and it's a

1570
01:03:55,260 --> 01:03:51,640
story about a wind farm turbine that was

1571
01:03:58,230 --> 01:03:55,270
damaged a couple of weeks ago by a

1572
01:04:02,519 --> 01:03:58,240
mystery aircraft and it was reported

1573
01:04:04,589 --> 01:04:02,529
that the three blues blades one of them

1574
01:04:07,650 --> 01:04:04,599
was bent and one of them actually ended

1575
01:04:09,120 --> 01:04:07,660
up on the ground and people reported

1576
01:04:13,109 --> 01:04:09,130
that at the time they saw a white light

1577
01:04:14,670 --> 01:04:13,119
flashing around very quickly and so UF

1578
01:04:16,109 --> 01:04:14,680
ologist said that they'd received many

1579
01:04:18,299 --> 01:04:16,119
reports of activity and they were

1580
01:04:22,769 --> 01:04:18,309
searching for clues how do you flesh

1581
01:04:24,990 --> 01:04:22,779
around slowly sorry go on do you want

1582
01:04:27,109 --> 01:04:25,000
more information about that a round

1583
01:04:29,849 --> 01:04:27,119
white light that seemed to be hovering

1584
01:04:32,609 --> 01:04:29,859
according to counsel only those in the

1585
01:04:35,730 --> 01:04:32,619
sky dear never really died like hovering

1586
01:04:37,890 --> 01:04:35,740
in the night no because it wouldn't be

1587
01:04:40,500 --> 01:04:37,900
the moon listening for no flashing by

1588
01:04:43,049 --> 01:04:40,510
slowly do not be you don't understand

1589
01:04:45,599 --> 01:04:43,059
let me let me explain the only way to

1590
01:04:47,609 --> 01:04:45,609
explain it is it wasn't a flare like

1591
01:04:49,349 --> 01:04:47,619
light it was just round white with a

1592
01:04:51,569 --> 01:04:49,359
slight red edge to it that seemed to be

1593
01:04:54,599 --> 01:04:51,579
over the wind turbine you have like a

1594
01:05:01,319 --> 01:04:54,609
great watches already you mean like a

1595
01:05:02,640 --> 01:05:01,329
happy face or something i don't know but

1596
01:05:05,490 --> 01:05:02,650
i have to tell you there were numerous

1597
01:05:09,359 --> 01:05:05,500
reports about this alleged white light

1598
01:05:10,859 --> 01:05:09,369
that with red outlines and a gentleman

1599
01:05:13,650 --> 01:05:10,869
by the name of rust callette from the

1600
01:05:17,400 --> 01:05:13,660
Flying Saucer bureau

1601
01:05:21,120 --> 01:05:17,410
this isn't the u.s. made up no I didn't

1602
01:05:23,039 --> 01:05:21,130
make that up this is from BBC News this

1603
01:05:27,390 --> 01:05:23,049
article because somebody had to make up

1604
01:05:30,720 --> 01:05:27,400
that name I think I was hoping it might

1605
01:05:32,520 --> 01:05:30,730
be you you didn't make it up it's here

1606
01:05:34,559 --> 01:05:32,530
it's got pink highlighter on it which

1607
01:05:36,529 --> 01:05:34,569
peeps know you know the BBC didn't make

1608
01:05:40,440 --> 01:05:36,539
it up because they don't have any humans

1609
01:05:44,789 --> 01:05:40,450
so sorry that guy must have been made a

1610
01:05:48,779 --> 01:05:44,799
flying saucer Bureau if it is he's even

1611
01:05:50,760 --> 01:05:48,789
uglier yeah well he said that this is

1612
01:05:52,710 --> 01:05:50,770
the second most reports of activity we

1613
01:05:55,650 --> 01:05:52,720
have ever had I've had over 30 phone

1614
01:05:57,799 --> 01:05:55,660
calls and emails and he says to hit two

1615
01:06:01,500 --> 01:05:57,809
blades any object must have been about

1616
01:06:03,539 --> 01:06:01,510
170 feet long now this is it does he

1617
01:06:05,579 --> 01:06:03,549
know that because of his expertise with

1618
01:06:09,380 --> 01:06:05,589
flying saucers and all the past events

1619
01:06:12,630 --> 01:06:09,390
we're flying sources of it the blades of

1620
01:06:15,329 --> 01:06:12,640
wind turbines I don't think so Iran it's

1621
01:06:17,069 --> 01:06:15,339
not mentioned in this article but I'm

1622
01:06:19,170 --> 01:06:17,079
not sure if that's the case I understand

1623
01:06:22,200 --> 01:06:19,180
how you would have to be a 170 feet long

1624
01:06:24,779 --> 01:06:22,210
to damage two blades on a wind turbine I

1625
01:06:26,160 --> 01:06:24,789
mean they come together in a hub you

1626
01:06:27,930 --> 01:06:26,170
think they're traveling very quickly

1627
01:06:30,750 --> 01:06:27,940
there they're rotating spirit of

1628
01:06:32,670 --> 01:06:30,760
spinning yeah oh yeah yeah well that's

1629
01:06:35,180 --> 01:06:32,680
that's true right but let me offer you a

1630
01:06:38,160 --> 01:06:35,190
month a more mundane explanation

1631
01:06:40,470 --> 01:06:38,170
remember like blaming it on you but it

1632
01:06:41,880 --> 01:06:40,480
wasn't playing song I don't know but let

1633
01:06:44,700 --> 01:06:41,890
me just offer you this and let you can

1634
01:06:47,250 --> 01:06:44,710
decide but this comes from HQ technical

1635
01:06:50,220 --> 01:06:47,260
experts okay medical experts have

1636
01:06:52,440 --> 01:06:50,230
suggested in fact dr. Peter shoe Bell

1637
01:06:54,120 --> 01:06:52,450
from the University of Nottingham is an

1638
01:06:56,829 --> 01:06:54,130
expert in the design and manufacture of

1639
01:06:59,200 --> 01:06:56,839
wind turn turbine blades

1640
01:07:01,599 --> 01:06:59,210
and he said that it would need to be the

1641
01:07:05,079 --> 01:07:01,609
equivalent of a ten-ton load to do that

1642
01:07:07,089 --> 01:07:05,089
kind of damage but if it was rotating or

1643
01:07:09,700 --> 01:07:07,099
hit by a moving object the force could

1644
01:07:12,759 --> 01:07:09,710
be a lot less so his explanation was

1645
01:07:14,200 --> 01:07:12,769
that it's definitely not a bird however

1646
01:07:18,009 --> 01:07:14,210
it could be ice thrown from a

1647
01:07:22,200 --> 01:07:18,019
neighboring turbine that struck it so

1648
01:07:25,089 --> 01:07:22,210
apparently according to dr. Peter cheval

1649
01:07:27,549 --> 01:07:25,099
most turbines have an anti-icing system

1650
01:07:29,349 --> 01:07:27,559
on the blades but sometimes they fail so

1651
01:07:31,539 --> 01:07:29,359
perhaps if it was spinning at enough of

1652
01:07:33,700 --> 01:07:31,549
a rate I just could have flown knows the

1653
01:07:37,269 --> 01:07:33,710
other one who I'll get the other turbine

1654
01:07:40,059 --> 01:07:37,279
possibly yeah yeah however the Ministry

1655
01:07:41,499 --> 01:07:40,069
of Defence in the UK and we've spoken

1656
01:07:43,329 --> 01:07:41,509
about them before actually because they

1657
01:07:46,170 --> 01:07:43,339
released their UFO files a few months

1658
01:07:49,390 --> 01:07:46,180
ago remember which was very interesting

1659
01:07:52,299 --> 01:07:49,400
they they haven't established whether

1660
01:07:54,609 --> 01:07:52,309
there was any sort of hostile or

1661
01:07:56,610 --> 01:07:54,619
unauthorized military activity in the

1662
01:07:59,820 --> 01:07:56,620
area at the time

1663
01:08:05,900 --> 01:07:59,830
so it seems like the jury's out on

1664
01:08:09,980 --> 01:08:05,910
whether it was a un phone probably

1665
01:08:13,110 --> 01:08:09,990
wasn't gonna starve to death being up

1666
01:08:14,910 --> 01:08:13,120
not coming back anytime soon going to be

1667
01:08:18,360 --> 01:08:14,920
an awful lot more UFOs if we just stop

1668
01:08:19,920 --> 01:08:18,370
identifying flying offense Omega if we

1669
01:08:21,300 --> 01:08:19,930
just stop identifying them be the be

1670
01:08:24,900 --> 01:08:21,310
UFOs everywhere and everybody would be

1671
01:08:28,440 --> 01:08:24,910
mmm that's a good point we should stop

1672
01:08:31,320 --> 01:08:28,450
identifying them yeah I by was up he

1673
01:08:33,840 --> 01:08:31,330
ready for the segue yes I saw a lot of

1674
01:08:37,110 --> 01:08:33,850
happy people today seat happy happy oh

1675
01:08:40,110 --> 01:08:37,120
yeah oh did you save the hapless would

1676
01:08:43,350 --> 01:08:40,120
be happier than me know are you know

1677
01:08:45,150 --> 01:08:43,360
very happy I went to the Macquarie

1678
01:08:47,220 --> 01:08:45,160
University as listeners would have heard

1679
01:08:49,410 --> 01:08:47,230
earlier in the show my brief report with

1680
01:08:51,840 --> 01:08:49,420
them doing the president of the

1681
01:08:53,970 --> 01:08:51,850
Macquarie skeptics I spend a day there

1682
01:08:56,880 --> 01:08:53,980
they're open week at their store there

1683
01:09:00,080 --> 01:08:56,890
the University um and the response was

1684
01:09:03,380 --> 01:09:00,090
just fantastic it was really heartening

1685
01:09:06,060 --> 01:09:03,390
lots of young students coming along

1686
01:09:09,150 --> 01:09:06,070
fascinated by things like spoon bending

1687
01:09:10,860 --> 01:09:09,160
water divining and it's the old stuff

1688
01:09:12,870 --> 01:09:10,870
that really got them now these these are

1689
01:09:17,220 --> 01:09:12,880
kids in there early their late teens

1690
01:09:21,000 --> 01:09:17,230
early 20s um and to them hoardings and

1691
01:09:23,970 --> 01:09:21,010
ghosties and UFOs and an old ESP that's

1692
01:09:26,520 --> 01:09:23,980
all really interesting stuff and I keep

1693
01:09:28,080 --> 01:09:26,530
trying to remind some skeptics out there

1694
01:09:29,280 --> 01:09:28,090
who said I'll we've already that's all

1695
01:09:31,320 --> 01:09:29,290
been debunked and we don't care about

1696
01:09:33,740 --> 01:09:31,330
that anymore anymore we need to move on

1697
01:09:36,480 --> 01:09:33,750
oh one of the points is no no there's

1698
01:09:38,700 --> 01:09:36,490
generations keep coming up and that's

1699
01:09:40,470 --> 01:09:38,710
what they are interested in so there's

1700
01:09:42,240 --> 01:09:40,480
that there's something there we need to

1701
01:09:44,160 --> 01:09:42,250
address i think what do you think yeah

1702
01:09:45,690 --> 01:09:44,170
like Loch mess for example a lot miss my

1703
01:09:49,200 --> 01:09:45,700
sister Bigfoot's been around for how

1704
01:09:51,000 --> 01:09:49,210
long forever it's true but the young

1705
01:09:52,440 --> 01:09:51,010
generations coming up they learn about

1706
01:09:54,120 --> 01:09:52,450
it they're interested in it they don't

1707
01:09:56,720 --> 01:09:54,130
know it's all being demand no that's

1708
01:09:59,520 --> 01:09:56,730
right and the Bermuda Triangle still a

1709
01:10:00,900 --> 01:09:59,530
an area of people being fascinated by it

1710
01:10:02,400 --> 01:10:00,910
and that's been debunked if you don't

1711
01:10:04,440 --> 01:10:02,410
know why it's been to bunch and how

1712
01:10:06,300 --> 01:10:04,450
you're still interested in that and i

1713
01:10:09,840 --> 01:10:06,310
have to say Richard spoon bending is

1714
01:10:11,970 --> 01:10:09,850
still spoon bending spoon bending is

1715
01:10:13,920 --> 01:10:11,980
still a great thing even though even

1716
01:10:15,660 --> 01:10:13,930
when you know how it's done it still

1717
01:10:18,360 --> 01:10:15,670
looks great when people it's good fun we

1718
01:10:20,940 --> 01:10:18,370
were bending I don't know I must have

1719
01:10:22,860 --> 01:10:20,950
been about 50 spoons today well again

1720
01:10:24,210 --> 01:10:22,870
and again and again because the the

1721
01:10:26,460 --> 01:10:24,220
young students have they've never seen

1722
01:10:28,110 --> 01:10:26,470
her before it's a great magic trick in

1723
01:10:30,630 --> 01:10:28,120
there completely freaked out it it's

1724
01:10:33,120 --> 01:10:30,640
it's a great Thank You mr. Geller thank

1725
01:10:35,280 --> 01:10:33,130
you thank you so much yes I'm sure mr.

1726
01:10:36,330 --> 01:10:35,290
Geller listen to the podcast I think

1727
01:10:38,490 --> 01:10:36,340
this is having the sort of this

1728
01:10:40,260 --> 01:10:38,500
fascinating yeah I think part of what

1729
01:10:42,150 --> 01:10:40,270
attracts not maybe not all of us but

1730
01:10:44,010 --> 01:10:42,160
some of us to like the kind of the

1731
01:10:47,060 --> 01:10:44,020
skeptic movement thing is that where it

1732
01:10:49,560 --> 01:10:47,070
is equally interested in in ideas like

1733
01:10:53,100 --> 01:10:49,570
Bigfoot and the Loch Ness monster and

1734
01:10:54,660 --> 01:10:53,110
the UFOs and we just cover it from a you

1735
01:10:56,430 --> 01:10:54,670
know an evidence-based angle but these

1736
01:10:58,470 --> 01:10:56,440
stories are just as much part of our

1737
01:11:00,330 --> 01:10:58,480
culture as they are they the true

1738
01:11:01,620 --> 01:11:00,340
believers culture that's a very good way

1739
01:11:02,470 --> 01:11:01,630
of looking at it they're part of our

1740
01:11:04,900 --> 01:11:02,480
culture

1741
01:11:07,090 --> 01:11:04,910
the other thing is that these things

1742
01:11:10,690 --> 01:11:07,100
seem to move with pop culture and that

1743
01:11:13,870 --> 01:11:10,700
like you know when sci-fi was all about

1744
01:11:15,550 --> 01:11:13,880
the Space Age and the space race you

1745
01:11:19,090 --> 01:11:15,560
know needed before was in the 50s and

1746
01:11:20,530 --> 01:11:19,100
the 60s there was loads of talk about

1747
01:11:25,170 --> 01:11:20,540
aliens and stuff and nowadays we've got

1748
01:11:27,250 --> 01:11:25,180
more things that kind of talk about

1749
01:11:29,040 --> 01:11:27,260
quantum physics and that's what you

1750
01:11:31,600 --> 01:11:29,050
people like Deepak Chopra taking a

1751
01:11:34,690 --> 01:11:31,610
quantum theory but you know there's this

1752
01:11:37,390 --> 01:11:34,700
is it's not unique we see around all

1753
01:11:41,590 --> 01:11:37,400
these things that are pits in UFOs and

1754
01:11:44,680 --> 01:11:41,600
the alien the abducting aliens and and I

1755
01:11:46,690 --> 01:11:44,690
mentioned it in my autism second a few

1756
01:11:49,150 --> 01:11:46,700
few weeks two weeks ago yeah the central

1757
01:11:50,920 --> 01:11:49,160
regions that are culturally related and

1758
01:11:53,530 --> 01:11:50,930
you find that as the culture advances

1759
01:11:55,450 --> 01:11:53,540
these things suddenly appear you see it

1760
01:11:57,760 --> 01:11:55,460
around the vaccine so have the reasons

1761
01:12:00,970 --> 01:11:57,770
for objecting to vaccines differ from

1762
01:12:02,770 --> 01:12:00,980
country to country hmm sure and these

1763
01:12:04,930 --> 01:12:02,780
are it's quite common when when you

1764
01:12:07,510 --> 01:12:04,940
don't think critically just you're just

1765
01:12:10,780 --> 01:12:07,520
affected by your environment you make

1766
01:12:11,609 --> 01:12:10,790
your wolf it with whatever you know so

1767
01:12:15,449 --> 01:12:11,619
it's

1768
01:12:16,679 --> 01:12:15,459
fundie site I'll we're back onto the

1769
01:12:17,819 --> 01:12:16,689
vision again I wasn't look if you're

1770
01:12:19,049 --> 01:12:17,829
really into the religion stuff come and

1771
01:12:21,000 --> 01:12:19,059
listen to me I'll catechol masters we

1772
01:12:22,080 --> 01:12:21,010
talk about this all the time breeze but

1773
01:12:23,909 --> 01:12:22,090
there was a car the other day saying

1774
01:12:25,259 --> 01:12:23,919
gays do off the rights to get married a

1775
01:12:31,319 --> 01:12:25,269
gay man can carry it and marry a gay

1776
01:12:36,179 --> 01:12:31,329
woman anytime you want to see me anymore

1777
01:12:38,239 --> 01:12:36,189
we work I am NOT going to provide any

1778
01:12:40,409 --> 01:12:38,249
links actually on the young Australians

1779
01:12:42,449 --> 01:12:40,419
Australian skeptics website they have a

1780
01:12:44,909 --> 01:12:42,459
link or they have it embedded right the

1781
01:12:49,139 --> 01:12:44,919
younger strange Genghis many skeptics of

1782
01:12:51,810 --> 01:12:49,149
the video of Fred Phelps fred phelps

1783
01:12:54,509 --> 01:12:51,820
went on a tirade against Australia as he

1784
01:12:56,819 --> 01:12:54,519
has easiest one that's nice about that

1785
01:12:58,500 --> 01:12:56,829
video it's a very troubling video if you

1786
01:13:00,839 --> 01:12:58,510
don't know who fred phelps is though you

1787
01:13:04,139 --> 01:13:00,849
don't realize that he's regularly forget

1788
01:13:05,879 --> 01:13:04,149
to take his medication but if you but if

1789
01:13:07,919 --> 01:13:05,889
you don't know it's very troubling

1790
01:13:09,330 --> 01:13:07,929
because he talks about how wonderful it

1791
01:13:12,239 --> 01:13:09,340
is that australians have been burning

1792
01:13:15,029 --> 01:13:12,249
and because of you got the stuff far in

1793
01:13:18,319 --> 01:13:15,039
this podcast know that i've been doing a

1794
01:13:22,080 --> 01:13:18,329
bit of work on the fires and go yes and

1795
01:13:23,729 --> 01:13:22,090
people you know hurt and flying in

1796
01:13:26,699 --> 01:13:23,739
hospitals and grieving the dead and this

1797
01:13:29,009 --> 01:13:26,709
guy goes on this tirade and the Westboro

1798
01:13:33,179 --> 01:13:29,019
Baptist Church were going to pick it the

1799
01:13:35,100 --> 01:13:33,189
memorial health roughly Saturday young

1800
01:13:38,009 --> 01:13:35,110
skeptics went along the name and they

1801
01:13:41,729 --> 01:13:38,019
try to locate them and unfortunately for

1802
01:13:44,339 --> 01:13:41,739
the Westboro Baptist Church people they

1803
01:13:48,189 --> 01:13:44,349
didn't they were not found I I have an

1804
01:13:51,569 --> 01:13:48,199
idea that or have a this

1805
01:13:54,129 --> 01:13:51,579
thought that in Australia they would

1806
01:13:57,449 --> 01:13:54,139
people would not be as tolerant as they

1807
01:13:59,649 --> 01:13:57,459
are in America of this kind of religious

1808
01:14:01,770 --> 01:13:59,659
madness however if you want to see the

1809
01:14:03,640 --> 01:14:01,780
press release of what they said about

1810
01:14:06,549 --> 01:14:03,650
picketing the national day of mourning

1811
01:14:08,020 --> 01:14:06,559
you had a rat bags calm and you can see

1812
01:14:10,239 --> 01:14:08,030
the floor press release it's really

1813
01:14:12,640 --> 01:14:10,249
offensive / about is getting publicity

1814
01:14:14,169 --> 01:14:12,650
for that course it didn't matter whether

1815
01:14:16,209 --> 01:14:14,179
they actually intended now either be

1816
01:14:18,609 --> 01:14:16,219
arena they point is by making this press

1817
01:14:19,870 --> 01:14:18,619
release they got onto the news in again

1818
01:14:23,379 --> 01:14:19,880
they're doing for the publicity that's a

1819
01:14:24,910 --> 01:14:23,389
good point so cut this out of the

1820
01:14:26,529 --> 01:14:24,920
podcast Richie because then what happens

1821
01:14:28,089 --> 01:14:26,539
to their not about getting converse so

1822
01:14:29,709 --> 01:14:28,099
you know they know very well that we're

1823
01:14:32,529 --> 01:14:29,719
not gonna go to the Westboro Baptists of

1824
01:14:36,790 --> 01:14:32,539
the sales outrageous stuff and function

1825
01:14:39,489 --> 01:14:36,800
notice they are nothing I mean yeah

1826
01:14:41,410 --> 01:14:39,499
matter yeah metaphorically speaking but

1827
01:14:43,270 --> 01:14:41,420
good on the young Australian skeptics

1828
01:14:46,109 --> 01:14:43,280
having a girl and now they've got a very

1829
01:14:47,890 --> 01:14:46,119
good podcast I love the young Australian

1830
01:14:50,350 --> 01:14:47,900
absolutely and they listen they listen

1831
01:14:52,149 --> 01:14:50,360
to this and the colossal I mean we're

1832
01:14:55,330 --> 01:14:52,159
all the same we're all on the same we're

1833
01:14:58,120 --> 01:14:55,340
all in the same boat row direction hello

1834
01:15:00,189 --> 01:14:58,130
hello pseudo-scientists hello hello

1835
01:15:06,250 --> 01:15:00,199
pseudo-scientists hello Jack can I ask

1836
01:15:07,540 --> 01:15:06,260
Elliot yeah maybe maybe if I ask him

1837
01:15:13,640 --> 01:15:07,550
really nice little put Dave a happy

1838
01:15:17,090 --> 01:15:13,650
singer calm it had to happen

1839
01:15:18,110 --> 01:15:17,100
all right well with that friendly note

1840
01:15:19,490 --> 01:15:18,120
to our good friends of the young

1841
01:15:20,960 --> 01:15:19,500
Australian skeptics I'd like to think

1842
01:15:23,660 --> 01:15:20,970
they've they're happy singer of course

1843
01:15:25,790 --> 01:15:23,670
thank you for having me any time and it

1844
01:15:27,880 --> 01:15:25,800
runs again thank you thanks ritter and

1845
01:15:30,710 --> 01:15:27,890
thank you for grain of salt good as ever

1846
01:15:32,360 --> 01:15:30,720
and as the door shuts and the corner

1847
01:15:34,940 --> 01:15:32,370
thank you rachel done what thank you and

1848
01:15:37,460 --> 01:15:34,950
thank you for dr. AG reports thank you

1849
01:16:00,570 --> 01:15:37,470
thank you and until next time this has

1850
01:16:05,590 --> 01:16:03,580
Richard wake up wake up her wake up it's

1851
01:16:09,760 --> 01:16:05,600
the end of the show oh sorry it was so

1852
01:16:11,380 --> 01:16:09,770
so intense I fell asleep I knobs that

1853
01:16:13,570 --> 01:16:11,390
we've been working your too hard which

1854
01:16:15,100 --> 01:16:13,580
is you're wearing too many hats you're a

1855
01:16:17,740 --> 01:16:15,110
jack of too many trades and a master of

1856
01:16:18,970 --> 01:16:17,750
all of them it's just too much so you're

1857
01:16:21,280 --> 01:16:18,980
allowed to have a power nap every day

1858
01:16:23,140 --> 01:16:21,290
thanks I do appreciate appreciate that a

1859
01:16:24,760 --> 01:16:23,150
power nap recharge the batteries I'm

1860
01:16:26,800 --> 01:16:24,770
ready for the next show in one week

1861
01:16:29,110 --> 01:16:26,810
which will be a special show yes well

1862
01:16:31,150 --> 01:16:29,120
any any news on next weekend oh yeah I

1863
01:16:33,400 --> 01:16:31,160
black can't say it such such big news

1864
01:16:34,900 --> 01:16:33,410
out our special guest little bit of a

1865
01:16:36,580 --> 01:16:34,910
secret at the moment they said not to

1866
01:16:38,740 --> 01:16:36,590
mention it yet in other words i'm still

1867
01:16:40,689 --> 01:16:38,750
working that out all right yeah I don't

1868
01:16:42,490 --> 01:16:40,699
tell listeners that I think you really

1869
01:16:44,350 --> 01:16:42,500
got something lined up no no it's gonna

1870
01:16:46,600 --> 01:16:44,360
be good as usual we always get good

1871
01:16:48,070 --> 01:16:46,610
gifts here on the zona do and now thanks

1872
01:16:50,050 --> 01:16:48,080
listeners for for hanging in there

1873
01:16:51,520 --> 01:16:50,060
because so that the show is going really

1874
01:16:53,860 --> 01:16:51,530
well we're getting lots of good feedback

1875
01:16:55,660 --> 01:16:53,870
and we're really enjoying doing it and

1876
01:16:59,050 --> 01:16:55,670
thanks for leaving comments on our blog

1877
01:17:02,110 --> 01:16:59,060
and our comments page all at ww skeptics

1878
01:17:03,550 --> 01:17:02,120
own TV yes that that too and and don't

1879
01:17:05,260 --> 01:17:03,560
forget also there's a little paypal

1880
01:17:07,720 --> 01:17:05,270
donation button there because of course

1881
01:17:09,280 --> 01:17:07,730
we're all volunteers and and there are

1882
01:17:10,810 --> 01:17:09,290
expenses in running a show like this so

1883
01:17:13,120 --> 01:17:10,820
if you do enjoy the show and you'd like

1884
01:17:14,979 --> 01:17:13,130
to see so keep doing what we do and you

1885
01:17:16,630 --> 01:17:14,989
know using these high-tech gadgets that

1886
01:17:18,250 --> 01:17:16,640
we use it'd be nice to just get a little

1887
01:17:20,340 --> 01:17:18,260
bit of a subsidy from you so you go on

1888
01:17:23,470 --> 01:17:20,350
the paypal it really does help because

1889
01:17:25,060 --> 01:17:23,480
owing to the generosity of our listeners

1890
01:17:26,860 --> 01:17:25,070
I've been able to get three of our

1891
01:17:29,860 --> 01:17:26,870
reporters complete digital recording

1892
01:17:31,780 --> 01:17:29,870
kits oh that is also so it's really good

1893
01:17:33,610 --> 01:17:31,790
thank you everybody yes hence the hence

1894
01:17:35,200 --> 01:17:33,620
the show going on words it upwards

1895
01:17:36,520 --> 01:17:35,210
towards annapolis all right we'll look

1896
01:17:39,400 --> 01:17:36,530
however great when we'll see you next

1897
01:17:42,750 --> 01:17:39,410
week a Richard yep alrighty buzzer thank

1898
01:17:48,940 --> 01:17:45,160
you've been listening to the skeptic

1899
01:17:52,150 --> 01:17:48,950
zone visit our website at www skipped

1900
01:17:56,180 --> 01:17:52,160
exhume TV for comments contacts and